Further to the signing of the Minutes with the IBA on 27-11-2009 on our demands for wage revision and pension option, on 9-12-2009, a round of discussions took place between IBA and UFBU. IBA’s team was led by Mr. Allen Pereira, (CMD, Bank of Maharashtra) and Vice Chairman of their Negotiating Committee. From the UFBU, all the 9 constituent unions participated in the Talks.
During this meeting, the broad approach to expeditiously finalise the full settlement was discussed. It was decided that construction of new pay scales, revision of allowances, drafting of the Settlement, etc. would be taken up in subsequent meetings to be held separately with the 5 Workmen Unions and 4 Officers Associations.
It was further decided that the drafting of the settlement on wage revision and pension option be simultaneously undertaken so that both the settlements can be signed together.
Arising out of the Minutes on pension option, it was mutually clarified and understood that ‘Retirees’ would mean and include employees/officers who have retired on normal superannuation, those who have retired under VRS/Special VRS and families of the PF optees who had died during the period all of whom would be eligible for the pension option. Issues like cut off date, formula for sharing of the additional cost of pension option, etc. were taken up and would be discussed further.
On 10-12-2009 IBA held separate meetings with the Workmen Unions and Officers Associations during which proposals for construction of pay scales, etc. were discussed. Since the construction of revised pay scales is the most important issue, the matter needs further discussions. It was decided that the discussions would be further continued in the next round of meeting for which dates would be fixed up shortly.
Source : IBA
77 comments :
an employee in a scale-II just takes home an increment of 3000 in ths 6th pay ..
is the IBA thinking bankers to b beggars?
"IBA THINKS BANKERS ARE BEGGARS"
IBA, UFBU ,GOVERNMENT AND EVERYBODY ASOCIATED WITH WAGE REVISION LACKS CONVICTION. OUT OF ANXIETY UFBU SURRENDERED THE RIGHT TO NEGOTIATION ITSELF FOR GETTING THE VEXED ISSUE OF PENSION TO SAVE 3 LAKHS PF OPTEES AND RETIREES WHICH FORMED AN IMPORTANT BUT UNAVOIDABLE AGENDA. KNOWING FULLY WELL BANK MEN ALSO SHOULD BE PAID WELL AT LEAST ON PAR WITH CENTRAL COUNTER PARTS BECAUSE OF PENSION, IF NOT MORE , IBA AND GOVERNMENT REDFSES TO YIELD. FOR THE PRESENT THE UNIONS SJOULD LIE LOW PROFILE AND WHAT EVER MAXIMUM THAT THEY CAN NEGOTIATE WITHIN THE PARAMETERS AGREED HAS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BY LOADING THE MAXIMUM BENEFIT IN THE PAY STRUCTURE . REST OF THE THINGS LIKE PARITY ETC SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR 01.11.2012 SETTLEMENT. WE LEFT WITH NO OTHER CHOICE NOW. POOR BANK MEN AND PENSIONERS.
DEFINITION OF RETIREES IS GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF MISUNDERSTANDINGS IN ITS INTERPRETATION. LET GOD GIVES BANKMEN THE COURAGE AND PATIENCE TO SUFFER FROM HUMILIATIONS
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
Kudos to UFBU leaders. There is a clear evidence that the leadership is taking care of all the employees including retired employees (see the definition of retirees - the category missed out is only resigned employees ). This is only because of they are all seniors and they have come to this level after facing all types of hardship.
The unions have achieved the best"Possible" settlement.Increase of 9.5% in 7 th BPS,13% in 8 th BPS and 17.50 % in 9 th BPS shows that the trend is same. Still many employees have not realized that the pension issue, compassionate appointment issue and wage revision issues are separate issues and not related to each other.Amounts earmarked for pension with the share of employees amounting to Rs 12990 and Rs 4200 crores from managements IS NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION TO EMPLOYEES but lies with managements and if pension is not settled it will not be added to wage increase. Employees share of Rs 12990 crores will be given to employees and management's share of Rs 4200 crores will either to government or will be utilized by the managements for any other purpose.
Suppose this amount of Rs 4200 crores is utilized for writing off bad loan of a big industrialist, neither employees not unions can raise any objection whatsoever since it is the prerogative of the managements to decide what to do with surplus funds.(So far bad loans written off by banks is Rs 1,75,000 crores as announced in the parliament by the erstwhile Finance Minister for which unions could not do anything so far).It is unwise to think that this amount will be made available for increasing the percentage of wage revision beyond 17.50 %.IBA has clearly informed under unequivocal terms that the wage increase can not go beyond 17.50%.Hence we should appreciate that at least 2.72 lakh employees who have served the banking industry from 20 to 42 years are getting benefit out of this funds instead of going to a big industrialist. Participation in strikes by all these 2.72 lakh employees from 1995 to 2008 is for pension and not for wage revision.This can be ascertained from any member.Wage revision is the right of employees and they are bound to be settled once in five years and is being settled so far.Instead of transferring their share of Rs 4200 to Government,managements are offering it as a fund to be held separately for generating income and pay as pension.Bargaining with IBA is not an easy task with divergent views expressed by each employee.
Several comments appearing in this section shows that employees have some confusion about
01) Resignation
02) VRS and
03) Special VRS
01.
All employees who are not covered under Pension regulation 1995 are required to tender their Resignation and they are not eligible for pension as per pension regulation 1995 after resigning because their past service is forfeited.Their leave encashment eligibility is to the extent of 50 % of the accumulated leave at the time of relieving
02.
All employees who are covered under pension regulation 1995 are required to tender VRS application and they are eligible for pension after acceptance of VRS.Their leave encashment eligibility is to the extent of 100 % of the accumulated leave at the time of relieving
03.
All employees who left the service under special VRS scheme 2001 are eligible to be covered under pension regulation 1995 now under 9 th BPS.Their leave encashment eligibility is to the extent of 100 % of the accumulated leave at the time of relieving
We are required to wait and see if IBA/unions will settle cases of category 1 employees as number of such employee is very very low
We are also equally against mergers and acquisitions. However, any struggle/protest should be actively supported and participated by all the UNions/Associations, for, it is not the problem of one or two unions/associations. When we do something on stand alone basis, it would tantamount to get neglected and result in earning the wrath of the public too! If you can muster the particpation of all organisations for this really justifiable cause please do. Otherwise, we have to graciously accept the proposals. We all know that when computerisation was thougt of, we fought tooth and nail and ultimately succumbed and today we ourselves are computer savy and use it in a big way! So change is part of life and part of business.
If you people still do not want to accept it as natural thing to happen and adamently stick to your outmoded agitational program, please find a suitable time frame. Atleast it should be the one when the Government is able to notice and do something. Now the entire nation is perturbed with the turbulent situation due to political turmoil in Andhra Pradesh. Hence, atleast think of postponing the strike for the time being.
Dear Shankar
I want to give some clarification in respect of your comment. Some banks offer VRS for employees who have opted for PF. I mention this for the benefit of members.
Point no 1 made by sankar is not correct to some extent. Some banks still offer VRS for PF optees and they give 100% leave encashment.
Mr shankar
The pension fund cannot be touched by the managemens and had to be invested as per guidelines just as in the case of PF and the managements of banks cannot utilise the pension fund of the employees as per their wish.
to aaaa
It is true that the pension fund can not be utilized by the managements for other purpose.But it is only after transfer of funds and not before. My point is if pension is not offered by managements, they can utilize this fund in any manner they want and employees or unions can not question the same.
TO Mr Parameshwaran
If names of the banks offering VRS with 100 % leave encashment facility is informed it would benefit other bank employees to seek same type of VRS through their respective unions.
Mr shankar
Canara bank is offering VRS with 100% leave encashment facility
to aaaa
Your information is very useful. I shall take up the matter with union leaders.Meanwhile Kindly ascertain as to whether the VRS to PF optees extended by Canara Bank is under pension regulation 1995 or under Officers Service Regulation in case of Officers and under Bipartite settlement in respect of Award staff.
Dear Shanker,
The VRS offered to employees is as per officers officers regulation
But not all employees are eligible under this VRS.
Emploees who have completed 50 years of age or 20 years of service are only eligible.
Benefits are
1.240 days leave encashment
2.TA/freight as permissible in the case of trasfers from the last place of work to place of settlement.
This was introduced way back in 1993.
Any idea about next meeting? There is no news about it in any of the sites. Let the core committee acts fast to finalise the things. We have waited for a long time to see the settlment.
We furnish below the Performance indicators of Public Sector Banks, as on date of last salary revision (2002). due date of salary revision (2007) and present (2009)
( Rs.in Crs.)
2002 2007 % increase 2009 % %
increase
Deposits 9,68,749 19,94,199 105.80 31,12,748 221.31
Advances 4,80,680 14,40,146 199.60 22.60,155 370.19
Total Business 14,49,429 34,34,345 136.94 53,12.903 270.69
Net Profit 8,302 20,398 145.69 34,319 313-38
Business/
Employees 1.92 7 .55 290.22 11.37 492.18
You will please observe that in all parameters be it business, profitability or productivity the Banks have performed exceeding well.
* Prior to 1979, Bank Officers salary was batter than that of the Group 'A' officers of Govt. of India. Class I officers Basic Pay was at Rs. 450/- per month where as Bank Officers Basic Pay was at Rs. 500/- per month with a difference of Rs.50/- per month-
* On account of Pillai Committee Recommendations during 1979. Bank officers, Basic Pay was fixed at Rs. 700/- per month at par with class I officers of Govt. of India.
* fourth Pay Commission fixed Rs. 2200/- per month Basic Pay for class I officers where as for Bank Officers it was at Rs. 2100/- per month.
* Fifth Pay Commission Scales, further widened the gap between Govt. Officers and Bank officers scales by Rs. 900/- per month. Govt Officers scale was at Rs. 8000/- per month whereas Bank officers scale was fixed at Rs. 7100/- per month.
;
°
• In 2004. 50% of D.A was merged with Basic Pay for Govt. Officers and Basic Pay 'was raised to Rs. 12500/- per month. Whereas for Bank Offices w.e.f. 1-11-2002 Basic Pay was at Rs. 10,000/- per month with a difference of Rs. 2500/. per month. In addition for Govt. Officer HRA was at 30% of Basic Pay in Metros as compared to 9% paid to Bank Employees.
• As on 1-1-2006. as per 6th Pay Commission Recommendations, Govt. officers. Basic Pay is fixed at Rs. 15,600/- with Grade Pay of Rs. 5,400/- totaling Rs. 21,.000/- The HRA for Govt. Officer was retained at 30% of Basic Pay whereas for Bank officers, it is at maximum 8.5% of Basic Pay.
;
* With present offer of 17.5% wage increase for Bank Staff, w.e.f.. 1-11-2007. Bank officers scales would at best be at Rs. 14,000/- per month as against pay scale of class I officers at Rs. 21,000/- (includes grade pay) thus further widening of the gap by Rs. 7,000/- per month in Basic Pay between Govt. and Bank officers
* Out of 17.5% wage increase offered by the IBA, Rs. 1,800/- crores will go towards 2nd option of Pension and incremental cost on Pension and remaining amount is not sufficient to construct scales of Bank officers above Rs. 14,000/- per month.
* Even in next wage revision for Banks. due from 1-11-2012 the gap between Govt. and Bank officers may not be wiped out.
* A minimum salary increase of 30% to 40% is ensured to .Public Sector undertakings, UGC Staff etc. In tune with 6th Pay Commission Recommendations.
* In SBI, Superannuation Scheme will not ensure 50% of last drawn Basic Pay as pension. Commutation formula is also inferior. Those retired before 31-10-2002, are drawing Pension, based on' 1992 scales..
* The Gratuity ceiling of Rs. 3.5 lacs is not enhanced for Bank employees w.e.f.
1-1-2006.
* Bank officers have unlimited working hours with accountability sword hanging on the head even after retirement. As against 5 day working in Govt. Bank staff virtually works all 7 days with no compensation, undergo greater transferability and accountability.
* Bank officers are expected to match performance with professional in private sector. and they do, but are paid below municipal employees.
THAT BANK EMPLOYEES ARE IN A HIGH WAGE ISLAND IS THE GREATEST MYTH
I
Today a General Manager of Bank draws emoluments less than a Section Officer of the Government of India;
A Probationary Officer of Bank draws less than a Clerk in Government and
A Bank Clerk draws less than a Peon in Government.
Hence, we pray for Pay Scales at par with Group 'A' officers in Government in India and
HRA@ 30%.
I
The bank officers should not be compared with Group A Central Govt. Officers. Most of them are directly recruited through Civil Service Exam, rest are promoted but not merely passing one dept. exam {As in Banks} can not make a Govt employee a Group A officer in Central Govt. They are involved in decision making process, not just accounting and clearing high value cheques. Thinking about responsibility involved and nature of job, the Govt officers can not be compared to the Bank Officers.
Dear Mr. Amitava Mitra,
I really feel sad when you say that passing some cheques and clearing operations are the job that bank officers are doing. Just passing one exam is not equal to passing Group I officers exam. So no parity needs to be given. Wonderful argument. It is not paper that they are dealing. All are dealing in lakhs of rupees why lakhs, crores of rupees are transferred from one bank to other through the magnificent process of clearing. Mobilizing deposits, giving courteous customer service, dealing in cash. Each and every activity is risk bearing. The psychology in giving more pay to bank personnel’s is that they are dealing with money. Hence they should be compensated and they should not get tempted for doing fraudulent activities. They got good pay only. In 1979 bank officers salary level was brought down to the level of Class I officers, Now bank officers are not demanding anything higher. They want only, parity with the class I officer which was the government policy even during 1979.Considering the risk they are taking and the unlimited work that they are doing including attending office on majority Sundays, THEY DESERVE MORE SALARY THAN CLASS I OFFICERS.
Can you please justify more than 100% increase in salary since IV Th pay commission? If that is the level of compensation that the Government wants to give to its officers for the role that they are playing, then same government should automatically extend the same amenities fore the officers who enjoyed more benefit earlier. Government is doing total injustice to the financial sector employees and it has to pay the price one day or other by allowing /drifting the industry to sickness due to non availability of good personnels to take positions . Financial newspapers two days back posted that attrition rates in SBI is more than 15 to 20% and the management is worried. This is only the beginning. If wage revision is going to be inferior then same probationary officers will write civil service exam and come to government/ There will be imbalance of talented personnels. Vs ordinarfy IQ level employees. Have you ever noticed that even in MBA campus placements, financial sectors are the top most pay masters. Reason is obvious. Dealing in money and process of decision making whether it is lending or investment is risk bearing and talent is required. .It is the bad luck for the banking industry and if the bipartite mechanism was abolished long back then they will draw better than central government as they would have been classified as PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN RETIRED SENIOR MANAGER INDIAN BANK
Dear Mr Balan,
Thank you for your prompt and detailed reaction. But I am sorry to say that there are more emotion than argument. Do you really think that mere handling of crores of cash should justify more salary ? If it was so, the personnel in India Govt. Mint were the highest paid all over the country. All the activities of a bank officer mentioned in your reply is being undertaken by a post office clerk also. Post offices do all the banking activity except sanctioning of loans. Apart from mail delivering system, they are engaged in almost all banking activities without very limited infrastructure. Even a single person remote post office is entrusted with almost all banking and postal job. The small scale savings is mostly managed by the post offices.
“courteous customer service” – these terms can be rarely used in the case of Nationalised Banks.
And lastly please refer to the word “Responsibility”. How often did you notice that Government officers are on a strike collapsing the total system ? Even ATM s are not spared harassing lot of peoples.
I humbly request you to consider all aspects while comparing anything.
Thanks and warm regards.
Aitava Mitra's argument in respect of a bank officer's job is something like a person explaining the risk of a soldier in a war without even seeing a war. The responsibility of a staff in Post office and an officer in a Bank is un comparable.In post office a counter staff is not entrusted with multiple jobs like in banks where all the jobs are to be carried out within the stipulated time schedule.By delaying for even a minute, the officer of the bank is liable to pay the entire amount of transaction involved from his pocket and no other staff or management will come to his rescue and any explanations offered by him is not accepted by the managements.Several lakhs of award staff members rejecting promotions or getting reverted to original cadre after working for few days as officer itself is the proof about the job risk.
Jobs of bank officers described by public is similar to that of twelve blind persons explaining the structure of an elephant to others.
Dear Mr. Amitava Mitra,
We can just laugh over your foolish arguments. In your opinion banking is just “dealing with some crore Rupees” and dealing with some crore Rupees is just a little game for you clerks. In your opinion Post Office is doing all activities of banking except “giving Loans”. I believe you have your all the accounts with Post office only as bank’s are useless for you. I believe you draw your salary cheque payable at post office, I believe you still prefer to send a money order to your daughter studying aboard. Please tell me I am right or not ? And if it is so simple, if Giving loans does not require any decision making why Govt. don’t allow all type of loans to POST OFFICES too ? the answer is risk ? Govt. can’t put into risk the money which is to be returned with interest to the depositor.
You said that you deserve more salary because you deal with “decision making”. Will you please tell me how many of you Govt. Clerks actually make decision. Do your Peons, Drivers, Clerks, typists, stenos, Constables, Personal secretaries all are busy in decision making!? And if not why your Peon is getting more than double salary to that of our Peon? Why your clerk is getting more than double salary to our clerk? And do you feel your Driver needs to make more decisions than our driver when they are on road? Please please tell me ? And please tell me when your peons, drivers, clerks, typists, stenos, constables everybody make decisions what work left for you bosses? I believe Govt. Officers are getting salary for doing nothing. Is it right?
Mr. Mitra do you know a flight pilot who carries a flight from Mumbai to New York puts his flight on “auto pilot” after 15 minutes of taking-off and he don’t do anything during rest of journey except taking some nap (small sleep). Neither he makes any decision nor any physical labour. Belive me he makes less decisions than your peon but follow the instructions of ATC. Then why a pilot gets more than double salary of your so called “Top Decision making Bosses” ? The answer is in risk and tuff duty hours.
So my dear friend please give some respect to at least our senior Officials who deals with projects with need of crore of Rupees. We have only public money to lend which is to be returned with interest not a Govt. budget like you. We need to generate not only interest to be paid to depositors but we generate our salary and expenses too. My dear friend do you know how many core rupees we pay govt. every year as profit despite huge money as service tax and TDS? You will agree that your Govt. Bosses are not running even a single Public Enterprises in profit. You must know that worlds largest Govt. Sector employer “Indian Railway” has given thousand of crore loss to Govt. every years despite the fact that trains are always full ! Because of your Govt. clerks. Because they don’t make good decisions. I am right or not ? (Read todays newspaper what Mamta Banarjee has said). You must know what is the condition of Indian Airlines which is run by your Govt. bosses . Why your govt. clerks could not bring Indian Airlines in profit with their supreme decisions in past 50 years ? And for your kind knowledge 20 to 25 years back most of the public sector banks were in loss and today not even a single bank is incurring any kind loss. The reason is our hard work and good decision making. With our good decision making we earn a huge profit every year and give it to govt. so that Govt. can pay you salary and afford luxury of your decision making.
conted.......
And my dear friend do you know how many diversified services are offered by modern banks ? Do you know what are our duty hours ? Will you tell me how many Govt. offices are opened after prescribed duty hours? When you go for night walk after your dinner and you see lights in a Public Sector bank are still on, please just get into the branch and see what people doing their and when their duty hours are already over. When you enjoy a complete 7 days festival off at Deewali(with help of one casual leave) a bank employee gets just one day as holiday. When you enjoy Diwali off with your children we go to our office and keep our bank open that you will come out for roam with your children and you will need cash. And Mr. Mitra we always open our bank on every Saturday, because we know you and your peons, clerks, drivers, stenos, typists and yes bosses too will be tired of 5 days great decision making and now you need a genuine break and you may come out to tease us in bank so that you can be fit for another 5 days for decision making.
Modern banking has just not been as it was in the past era. Today we work in target pressure. Today we work in great competition with our fellow Govt. banks as well as Private Banks and Foreign banks. We work in pressure of good customer service where customer is always right. If you don’t believe just make a false complaint against any bank officer and you will see he hanged without any query because our bosses think customer is always right. You must be knowing when a Govt. officer goes on leave all his work goes on leave. Your clerks reply “Sahib 7 din bad aayenge tab aana”. But a Bank officer has to run his all the counters even in a situation when all the staff members are on leave expect him.
I am sure you don’t have any family member or close relative in any bank. We know how we kill our self every day. Please go through the readings that how our families suffer with us. We have no time for our children. We can not attend their Teacher Parents meetings. We can’t be there with them on their birthdays as we are always busy in serving you people.
I have seen many govt. offices where people are at home for complete 7 days and still they are on duty. They make their all the decisions for all of the week in a single day when the go to office in attendance register. I have seen top Govt. Offices getting more than 50k per month playing cards on computer screen. I have seen Govt. clerks making purchasing in market with their wives and kids when the are on “decision making”. I am sure
you will never see a bank employee doing such things. Because he knows has to earn his own salary with hard work and he knows Govt. is not going to give him anything from it’s budget like giving it to you people for decision making.
Please don’t test our patience.
I am sorry. Nothing personal against you please.
DEAR SHYAM SINGH,
I PREFEREED NOT TO REPLY ONCE AGAIN FOR PERSONS LIKE AMITAVA MITRA WHO ARE HAVING PRECONCEIVED NOTION ABOUT BANKING AND RELATED ACTIVITIES AND THE STRUGGLE BANK,MEN ARE TAKING. yOU HAVE DONE IT IN DETAIL.VERYGOOD.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
Dear amitav mitra if u feel like postal services and banking services are same kindly close your bank account and open account with post office for your banking needs. Then post your experience after 30 days sir.
Dear Balan sir,It was a good gesture on your part on not engaging Mr amitav for discussion , because u can discuss with persons having detailed knowledge , but only argue with people having half knowledge,which is a futile exercise.
Dear Balan Sir,
I could have avoided Mr. Mitra but how dare he said your arguments “just emotions” . Still I have a lot of things to say him if he has dare to listen. Not replying a fool is not a good gesture; the fool may think himself very wise if he is not replied properly.
He has said that they are selected through Civil Services Exam. And not merely by passing any departmental Exam. First thing is that they don’t have any extra professional qualification. The basic educational qualification required for a Civil Officer is only “graduation” which is same to our bank officers. But the difference is that a bank officer needs to upgrade his qualifications thorough out his carriers by passing CAIIB and other examinations conducted by IIIBF. Those who do not pass these examinations, never get higher positions in banks. I don’t know if a Govt. officer needs to appear in any examination in his carrier after selection.
The Govt. Officers are promoted as per their seniority no matter he is a horse or an ass. While in banks both the promotion and recruitments examinations are conducted by IBPS, the same institution who conduct CAT and other top examination in our country. The standard of paper is sometimes so tuff that it makes very difficult to find out candidates as per desired vacancies, both in recruitments and promotions. Recently in my bank only 77 candidates could pass the promotion examination against 225 vacancies for promotion from JMG-1 to MM-2 . The number of candidates who appeared in the examination was more than 2000. I mean to say our promotion examination are not just formality. We have to appear not only in tuff G.K. paper as it is in Govt. recruitments but also tuff “General Intelligence Test” which we don’t see even in civil services examination. Had Mr. Mitra ever tried to appear in PO examination of SBI conducted by BSRBs he would have know how tuff it was to become a bank PO. Mr. Mitra please read interviews of candidates who passed civil services examination and know that how many times they failed in bank PO examination.
And leave officers my point is that do your clerks, typists, stenos, drivers, constables selected through CAT? What is standard of their recruitment test? Is it more tuff than that of bank recruitment procedure? Do they have any extra educational qualification? And if not why are they getting more than double salary to their counter parts in banks? A candidate should have minimum 60% marks in his Senior Secondary Examination to become a bank clerk, but a pass class Matriculate can become a Govt. clerk.
And lastly I would like to talk about responsibility. Mr. Mitra we never go on strike when banks are already closed for more than one day because of any holiday. We always prefer to go on strike on Wednesday or Friday. We never choose Saturday or Monday for strike as we don’t want to hamper public work. Is it not a proof of our responsibility? We never go on an indefinite strike. We always give one month prior notice to Govt. before our strike so if govt. wants to avoid it, can resolve the issue. But, govt. loves our strike as it gets a crore of rupees as salary cut for the day of strike. But when a Govt. Employee goes on strike his pay is never cut but the day of strike is adjusted in Privilege leave.
Is it sufficient for your Mr. Mitra ?
Hello Mr Shyam Singh,
I am not at all surprised about your standard of language. Most of the bankers behave like this with there customers. They think themselves the most intelligent in the world though there sphere is too limited. It is great that you have confined yourself in the banking industry only. The rest of the country is spared. Do not even think of Civil Service, that is not your cup of tea brother. Carry on "deposit and withdrawal","cheque and cash" because you are that much competent only.
It seems from the comments of Mr Shankar that the risk involved in banking sector is much more than a soldier or commando fighting against enemy or terrorists. We appeal to the IBA to provide adequate insurance cover for them.
It is very easy to become an officer from a clerk and more easy to get reverted. As an officer is nothing but a more paid clerk there, same job with extended working hours and without any administrative power. They even can not ask explanation from a sub staff.
The only decision making process by a bank officer is to whom and how much loan is to be sanctioned. If it was rightly done, the amount of bad debt was not so much creating huge NPAs for the banks.
Mr Shyam Singh, kindly note that as bankers are inefficient enough to complete their routine job in the normal working hours, they have to stay overtime. With state of art infrastructure where almost everything is managed by the computers unlike in most of the Govt. departments, they clear only their backlogs and do not serve customers overtime.
Do no please envy the salary of Govt officials. It is true that they are relatively well paid now. But did you ever think about them when they were poorly paid ? No comparison was there then.
None of the persons including Mr Balan could argue against the violent trade union activites of the bankers. Is it a responsible act to call strike 5 to 6 times a year ? Will any of you please answer why ATMs are shut in strikes ? Do you people really think about the urgent need of a patient for cash in those so called “protest”days ?
It was you who protested against computers in banks. {Perhaps in the fear of advanced technology which is yet to be get acquainted with most of your aged officers}.
So be rational. You are not the only group of people who work in the country. In stead of arguing here, do your job properly. You are only to deliver the output as the policies and guidelines are framed by the Govt officers of the Finance ministry. I think your Chairman is also nominated by the Govt. among the Finance Ministry bureaucrats.
And please do not ask me to close my bank account. If people really do so, your existence will be in real trouble and I am sorry friend, foreign banks only hire competent persons.
Dear Mr. Amitava Mitra,
Now I am happy that your mouth is shut. Now i can say that there are more emotion than argument in your voice. If you have dare to face the reality why don't you reply any of my argument ?
Got your answer dear, Mr Shyam Singh ? Just look upwards before your comment.
I have seen there and I can see nothing but your emotions, not the logic.
I am agreed Mr. Mitra. I am agreed that your clerks, constables, typists, stenos, peons and Sections officers all make their own policies that whom to serve and whom to note, when to reach office and when to note, when to available on their seat and when to note. Now you are happy ?
I am confident if you close your bank accounts no bank will in trouble because all people in the country not that much ungrateful. They understand what the importance of our work is and what service we are giving to them at what cost.
And will you please tell me which foreign bank has set standards of great customer service in India ? Please go through RBI press releases and take note that which bank in India has most customer complaints. And you must know how foreign banks behave with you when you make default in making your credit card payment in time. They fetch you out from your house in street and beat you in public. I am agreed we are not competent upto them but still we are running our institutions with same proficiency.
I think you always avoid international news’s. You must know how many foreign banks have collapsed in past two years and why.
No sir, we are not blessed with bureaucrats, why govt. will bless us with bureaucrats? Only clerical job is done in banks and we the “clerks” do it well. Why to spoil your talent in banks? Your talent is more required in making money from Govt. budget. Please save us as we deal with public money which is to be returned with interest. You show your talent in NAREGA where no one to ask that how the money is used, you show your talent in Mayawati’s statue project, you show your talent in Indian Railway, you show your talent in Indian Airlines, you show your talent in Govt. Hospitals where miss-management can be seen every where and you show your talent in Police where corruption has set standards where we bankers can never reach.
And regarding behaviour with public. A person can wait hours for Govt. Clerk/Officer in govt. office but he can’t wait more than 5 minutes in a bank for his Demand Draft or cheque book. His expectations are high when he goes to bank but the same person don’t say anything if he has hours/weeks to wait for a govt. clerk on his seat. The reason we have set such standards in banks, but in Govt. offices people expect that they will behave like this only.
Could you tell me name of single Bureaucrat in the country who has sat standards of great management or great public service in any field in past 50 years? Could you tell me name of a single bureaucrat who could make even a single district of country problem free, where there is no unemployment, no illiteracy, no water problem, no electricity problem, and no transportation problem? The country is run by you people; could you make a single district of the country in past 50 years where a citizen can live with all amenities?
And lastly please, we are not comparing ourselves with IAS officers. We don’t want salary with more than 100k per month. But it should be sufficient to meet out our life needs. The need of our family is same as it is of your family. Do you want we send our children to Govt. School? (Sorry, Govt. schools are run by bureaucrats under their supervision) Do you want our officer should carry bicycle? Should we cut our children’s bread and butter? You can see how Dearness is increasing day by day. It is increasing not only for your but for us also.
I am sorry for all my bad remarks, but when emotion hurts, it really pains.
I regard you. Hope you will forgive me if anything hurt you. but if you abuse someones profession, you will always get answer like this.
Dear Balan Sir,
where are you sir? I would love to see your comments. I cant stand a person abusing my profession.
SHYAM SINGH BARETH
Officer MM-2
Oriental Bank of Commerce
Jaipur.
Yes Mr Shyam Singh, at last you got my point. Nobody has any objection about your pay hike. It should be hiked accordingly . Everybody should be paid in such a way that they can leave a good life despite of the inflation. I only request you not to compare with the IAS officers. They are running the country, not just a few banks. You deliberately avoided about your strike with closed ATMs. OK. I know that you have nothing to say. The trade union movement which you may not support from your heart but helplessly follow their verdicts. And do not ask Mr Balan to come to your support. You are mature enough. Take your decisions yourself. Do not act blindly as your leaders or anybody like Mr Balan says. Judge yourself. Otherwise you will do the same mistake once again.....opt for CPF and beg to Govt for another pension option.
Thank you. Wish you a merry Christmas and happy New Year.
Dear Mr. Mitra,
If you still want to elaborate, I am ready for it. We never go on indefinite strike. Our strikes are always symbolic, first for one day and if issues are not resolved then for two days. I have already told you we give one month prior notice to Govt. before strike. ATMs are always made full on the eve of the day before strike. I agree people may suffer even than, but dear it is natural. When Doctor’s go on strike patient always suffer, when Roadways employees go on strike passengers suffer, when Airline employees go on strike passengers always suffer, if any section of public servants go on strike public has to suffer. You can’t say that Govt. employees never go on strike. I am for Rajasthan and I have seen 57 days indefinite strike of State Govt. employees in the year 2003. That strike was demolished by the Congress Govt. and paid price in the Assembly election in the year 2004.
In the year 2009 bank employees have gone for total 3 days strike for which we were forced to go. Govt. had already offered us 17.5% wage hike in June 2009 and principally our unions agreed for it but after that IBA took it steps back and reduced it to 12% and forced us to go for strike.
So Dear Mr. Mitra, you have not seen violent trade unions. Had our unions violent, indefinite strike call would have been given and surely we could have got salary hike as per our desire. Everybody knows indefinite strike of banking sector can demolish our economic structure in few days only. But, we are responsible people so we are bearing all the injustice made to us by Govt.
I believe your all misunderstandings regarding banking sector and bank employees may be clear now.
Thanks.
Referring to Mr AMITAVA MITRA's comments:
No doubt Indian Administrative Service is the No-1 government service, associate with best talents; but not all jobs available through this exam are.For example, 'Indian Railway Traffic Service' , Indian Postal Service , Group-B Allied jobs which, one has to get through the same rigorous preparation of IAS, are far behind of RBI Grade-B or SBI PO in competitive market in our country. Even another job Indian Economic & Statistical Service does not fetch much importance though being a group-A service.Provincial Civil Services of any State Government should not be mentioned here for comparison. Its attraction is on some other count, not on count of paid salary.Hope all can follow my points on State Services.
The course of civil service exam of UPSC needs much more preparations than any direct bank officer's exam.The personality test of civil is also tough than BANK-PO Interviews.
It is also not known to us that, whether Mr Mitra is a direct(R.R) IAS Officer or not.If he is not an IAS/IFS/IPS(All India Services) or not in Indian Revenue (IRS)/IA&AS etc category of services, definitely his putting such a strong argument on the comparison-task bears a big ? and respective argument/discussion will be incomplete. So I request Mr Mitra to let us know, what actually he is.Thanks.
Referring SHYAM SINGH BARETH Officer MM-2,Oriental Bank of Commerce ,Jaipur.December 20, 2009 11:44 PM
-----------------------------------
Dear Mr Singh,
Working for GOVT, in decision making matters, is certainly fetch more important than doing any work in bank, in a country like our India.That is the reason that RBI Governor is an IAS, but no Finance Secretary in GOI is a Bank Officer.
Where was our calculative decision on opting for pension in 1993/95? If there was any clause for 'Illegal Strike - service break' then why that was not consulted with the constitutional experts, with the framework of Indian Constitutions?
A bank employee/officer is always handicapped on these subjects and always depends on his or her 'Dummy God' Union.Great failure in 1993-95 in not opting pension by a sizeable section, is also one of the fatal reasons for ours position in salary count in Nineth BPS.
So my dear comrades, when I could opt it(pension), right in 1993-94, in first instance, had been a left over service 32 years in bank at that time, why you people could not? Yes Sir, it was an incapability in us to take a right decision in right time on that matter; what so ever the reason.
Unions in general and AIBEA in particular gave a call to their members not to opt for Special VRS-2001. Leaders attended meetings all around the country at that time, I recalled.But 99% didn't listen to unions and opted for VRS. So blaming AIBOC, BEFI etc for misleading us for pension option is always not true.
The recruitment procedure of ours is incomparable with Indian Civil Services conducted by UPSC.It is just comparing a school teacher with a UGC lecturer. Here we prepared for Reasoning,Math,G.K., Eng,Marketing,Computer for an entry in bank jobs and it can be prepared with in a span of two/three months. But on contrary Civil needs at least a year or two with a vast preparation.I have never seen an IITian or MBBS in any public sector bank's main stream, but in Civil Services, particularly in All India category like IAS.IFS,IPS it has been.
So before joining an duel, we should have our homework neatly and must fathom our pros & cons to fight like Alexander the Great. Thanks.
Please visit the blog www.bankpension.blogspot.com
It was not pursued by Unions till 2006 end though an option was due to all on rolls of banks in February, 1999
Invite comments on blog C N Venugopalan, Nandanam, Kesari Junction N Paravoor Kerala - 683 513 to know how the Pension Issue came to limelight. Phone 0484 2447994 or 09447747994
Surf " Banking On Consensus"
@Mitra sir (ur comment dated 20th dec) “It seems from the comments of Mr Shankar that the risk involved in banking sector is much more than a soldier or commando fighting against enemy or terrorists. We appeal to the IBA to provide adequate insurance cover for them.”
Please go ahead and request for the same sir. I don’t have one. We will be grateful. But then …oops…how can govt employees be expected to adhere to their own promises. I keep forgetting that govt employees don’t have to be accountable for their work….oops I mean “decision making”.
Sir, its an established fact that risks needs to be compensated, how trivial , routine the job may be. Morever with the technological changes and advances banking is become more and more dynamic . How many of your offices can boast of technological advancement and initiatives as compared to banking. The govt offices are still saddled with files. Sir, atleast we strive to complete the backlog. The problem with your department is that you never do. Oops… u never work so where is the question of backlog????
Being a Govt officer, U must yourself be aware (sufferer too) of the famous “babu” attitude at work place. I need not to elaborate more on that. Its already the butt of many jokes. Have your departments ever been accountable to the general public?????? Is there anyone like RBI or ombudsman to haul you up in case of deficiency in service????? Again how many of your offices and establishments can boast of punctual attendance. Implementation of punctuality ( i.e coming to office by 10 and leaving not before 5) are met with stiff resistance as observed recently in West Bengal.
Sir as regards the decision making aspects, We all know that bureaucrats (with some notable exceptions-thankfully) always toe the political line. They propose, sign and approve as per the directions of their political masters. Some of your decision making certainly defies normal logic but then its “perfectly normal” to do the same for seeking political mileage, getting plum postings etc.
We can say with full confidence that Mr.Amitabh Mitra is not an IAS because IAS do not have time for this kind of a discussion.It is old saying "Jiski Lathi uski Bhains".The IAS have lathi in their hand and because of them and Politicians every employee in central govt got their pay commission.It is not who is better or who is doing what.The position of the country will be known after five to six years.By that time our Govt would have sold all profit making PSUs.The fiscal situation arising out of it will be the real challenge.Then we will know how govt reacts to it and what is the efficiency of so called decision makers (half of the time many of them are sleeping and refrain from meeting general public) .The following are the examples.
1.What is benefit of an IAS/IPS if you can not minimise crime.
2.How much transparancy is there in their functioning example ex DGP of Haryan could annihilate a family with impunity.
If one look at the newspapers you will know how efficient our govt employees are? and how efficient Bank employees are?
For Mr.Amitabh Mitra's information,he should do a study how the private Banks are run by ex officers of the Bank(Mostly POs).Almost 50% of them leave the Bank.
The exam patterns are uncomparable I have seen people who failed even the clerical exam but are posted as IAS/IPS and there are examples clerks rising to level of CMD but same is not possible in the govt.
The discussion should not be on the line it is happening.
For Mr Mitra's info we have not taken part in strike on 16-12-2009.
No more further discussion on the matter
The only correct part in the Bank's comment is "IAS do not have time for this kind of a discussion."
Only the Bankers have such time as they are mere 10 to 5 clerks.
And this is to mention who gave him the authority to decide when to stop a discussion ?
Referring to Bank's comment December 26, 2009 3:03 PM:
"I have seen people who failed even the clerical exam but are posted as IAS/IPS"
Dear brother,
Are you in dreams? Before delivering such lines, please be sure of the fact.Don't fight over a battle lost.
I read your name 'Bank'. But at the same time find your post at 3:03 PM today i.e. Saturday a half working day for us.Being a CTO (a clerical post) I am just arriving home from office and thinking how a bank employee in real can attend the blog at 3:03 PM.
Brother, really I am surprised! Thanks.
FOR KIND ATTENTION OF MR AMITAVA MITRA:
Dear Sir,
I like to get a direct answer from you on the following subject. Hope you would be candid enough to reply the same.
"Now let us take an example of a successful Bank PO.I am talking about the current CMD (Chairman and Managing Director) of State Bank of India, O. P. Bhatt. He started his career as a probationary officer in State Bank of India in 1972 and has held several key assignments at various offices during his long career of 36 years with SBI. Born on 7th March 1951, Shri Bhatt studied science at the undergraduate level as a National Science Talent Search Scholar and did his graduation in Physics. Thereafter, he obtained a Master’s Degree in English Literature. He held several important assignments in India and abroad including stints at the Bank’s London and Washington Offices He served as the Scheme Co-coordinator of branch computerization at SBI central office, Regional Manager SBI Jaipur Zone, General Manager at Lucknow zone and Chief General Manager at North East Zone. Shri Bhatt has been the Chairman of Board of Directors of State Bank of India since July 1, 2006. He serves as the Chairman of State Bank Of Partiala, State Bank of Indore and SBI Factors & Commercial Services. He serves as Deputy Chairman of Indian Banks' Association. He has been a Director of State Bank of India since April 26, 2006. He was one of the nominees of CNN – IBN Indian of The Year 2007 in the Business category and was finally declared the winner on January 22, 2008."
In your view what should be his comparative status among these designations of GOI.
1)Deputy secretary
2)Director
3)Joint secretary
4)Additional secretary
5)Secretary
6)Cabinet secretary
With thanks.
I am sure Mr. Mitra will compare Mr. O.P. Bhatt with a post office clerk. The reason is he himself is a govt. clerk and he is unable to see world beyond his clerical atmosphere.
One more thing, when you ask him a direct point to point answer he never reply.
Mr. Mitra is unable to take participate in a debate. This shows how intelligent Govt. clerk's actually are.
and Mr. Chandan if you feel that Bankers have more time to attend blog as they are free on Saturday at 2.00 PM (although it is not correct in respect of all the employees), why do you forget that Govt. employees are free from early morning to late evening on every Saturday as they enjoy a complete holiday.
hello frnds, why so unpleasant situation in here. guys calm down.we are not here to preach to one or the another.
Its really childish to judge which profession is better.ALL professions have equal importance in taking our country ahead & making life of one another function smoothly.
Its we (employes) who make professions good or bad with our nature & attitude. hope you cant even underestimate a profession of muncipal worker who takes junk from our home daily.EVEN IF THEY GO ON STRIKE NONE OF US(BANK/CIVIL SERVANTS) can live life happily. So dont comment on our professions which we are involved in.
We have right to ask for equality which we can get by taking the matter to appropriate authorities (thru one or other means) but not by arguing against one anothers profession. We chose our professions.neednot get our heads down depending on others comments.
thanks & regards
Referring SHYAM SINGH December 27, 2009 8:44 PM:
Dear brother SHYAM SINGH,
Mr. Chandan is an erstwhile clerk of state and central govt for long eight years combined.He started his career in state govt, then resigned and joined in central govt. He also finally qualified in three BSRBs of different states. Presently where he has been working is his second bank service.Today also his dream period of service is counted in state govt.He adheres his best love & affection for his govt jobs.Only for higher salary he joined in banking industry,but unfortunately at the end of 2009, that found to be a futile. AIBOC Vice-President K.Anandkumar already expressed the same in his recent article in Business Standard.
There is no sanctity left in this bank job for last one decade due to various reasons.Mr Chandan today repents a lot for joining in this industry, a long 17 years back. He feels he failed to take a judicious decision at that time.His today's friend circle is fortunately or unfortunately not from banking circle, but from govt departments, where he once used to work. Definitely ugly unjustified comments on jobs in govt departments make him unhappy.
Can any one prove the comment "People who failed even the clerical exam but are posted as IAS/IPS"? That was completely a vague and raise doubt in mind, whether the comment comes from an actual bank employee or not.
Regarding Mr Mitra, he is an intelligent retired govt officer not a clerk.His writing style, word punctuation and timing of comments posted are observed & noted by Mr Chandan and he is sure of it. So please don't under estimate Mr Mitra.
Regarding O.P.Bhatt the answer is here. One can recall, in nineties one Mr Dipak Rudra, one Principal Secretary of West-Bengal cadre had been appointed as Chairman of UCo Bank for a term. A state govt Principal Secretary is of the rank of Additional-Secretary in central govt. As UCo is comparatively very small to SBI, the Chairman(SBI) can be compared with the chief secretary of a big size state, whose rank is equivalent to a secretary in central govt. Please never try to compare GM of a bank with Cabinet Secretary, which some persons have done here, to do nothing, but to make themselves laughing stocks for others.So please be cautious.
Thanks.
COMMENT REPRODUCED, TO TAG IT WITH THIS HEADLINES; FROM PAY COMMISSION HEADLINES: "PSU Bank Salary : Lower than their Govt.counterparts: SBI Staff Association"Saturday, August 29, 2009.
chandan said...
Referring AMITAVA MITRA September 5, 2009 7:41 PM:
"It is not so easy to become a Govt Gazetted officer like the Banking sector"
On the above said comment, this is to inform that in organised Accounts or Audit departments of GOI, like CAG,CGDA,Railway Accounts,P&T Accounts etc a matriculate LDC can be a Gazetted Officer with a Grade Pay of 4800/- within a span of 5 to 6 years just clearing a mere departmental exam i.e. SOG/SAS etc.The course of this exam is more or less similar to CAIIB-I/II old course for bank employees, that was in vogue just six/seven years back.
So not only Bank officers who are promoted from Clerk after just passing one dept exam, but also some GOI Gazetted officers are promoted from Clerk after just passing one dept exam as stated above.
It is also easy to become a Govt Gazetted officer like the Banking sector,where fast track departmental exams are available.Thanks.
December 27, 2009 7:44 AM
DETERMINATION OF SALARIES
In general salaries rather we say compensation can be determined in Indian conditions mainly based on the following parameters.
.qualification necessary to perform the task
capacity to pay by the organization
availability of the required talent in a competitive environment
selection of personnel; examinations conducted by the various government agencies tailored to suit the role of the job
special selections
sophisticated campus recruitment of the candidates from the premier management institutes/IITS not normally by any of the above process.
Till 1986, government acted on a very conservative basis and paid only normal/subnormal salaries to its employees. Inflation was under control. At that time bank unions through their muscle power bargained for slightly higher scales when compared to the government counterparts. Only on seeing the migration of talents from the government side to the banking sector government appointed PILLAI COMMITTEE and rationalized the pay scales of offiers.
Bank officers scale I , Lecturer job, Class I officer were all euated on par and was placed in 700 starting scale. EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK AND RESPONSIBILITIES was the essence of the committee.
Outr late prime minister Rajiv Gandhi was mainly responsible to change the out look of the government employees . Things started moving in their favour. Sucessive pay commission gave generous revision with VI th pay commission a jackpot because of the added star GRADE PAY.
Of late in the blog cold war is going on claiming superiority by one sector or another coolly forgetting the concept of aptitude and willingness. Person A may be interested in Finance, B may be interested in engineering and third person may be interested in medical and others may be interested in IAS . Persons selects the profession to suit their aptitude if it comes to his choice . otherwise they are ending with some career because of necessity. There may be couple of persons who might not have taken up the IAS route to serve the country ,because of their unwillingness and they are serving in the bank or as a lecturer. We can not under estimate their talent .
Risk is maximum in the banking profession and the word VIGILANCE is the DAMASCUS SWORD above the officers head however honest the officers may be. Such type of risk is not associated in any other non financial profession so that an identical comparison may not be possible. There is nil risk in teaching profession .
Hence whether there is bank officer or college lecturer or class I officer some equality of status by comparing all the parameters including the day to day working was accepted , uniform salaries were arrived. While the government tries to maintain the uniformity in all the areas OUR UFBU alone failed to note the basic scheme and they missed the bus on various occasions. Hence UFBU alone to be blamed. Had the bipartite mechanism is not there Government might actually accorded the same status and he bankmen would have got their wage increase without much efforts .Please let us see whether it is rectifying at least in the future. We can put a fullstop to the superiority /inferioiry theory.
K balasubramanian
My dear brother do not be so emotional on these issues.We have never said that Bankers are better but unfortunately in most of the loss making corporation the CMDs are IAS.One simple example we will give that in practicality an administrator has to work under a public representative whose qualification Mr.Mitra,he can not ask or decide.Let the public decide these issues and do not come to hasty conclusions.For the info we would say that these things can not be generalised as done by Mr.Mitra and some Bank Officials.If we look at the situation of the country today following are the examples of todays India.
1.We are going to organise C-Games in this year and we are not on schedule whose fault it is?
2.Many people die by falling in a manhole,whose responsibility it is?
3.There are thousands of rapes,rampant corruption and in most of the cases an IAS/IPS is only hooked after retirement.
4.Mr.Mitra the examination pattern for civil services is faulty and designed by English to serve their purpose and white babus have been taken over brown colour.There is no test for psyscho and ability to mange the Public.For your info many officers have died of Heart Attack because they could not be part of the system.
5.The care for Aam admi is missing as only responsiblity of many administrators is not constitutional guiding principals but towards their political masters.
6. Mr.Mitra ,do not generalise the things in a biased manner and holistically look at things.
We have never said that Bankers are the most efficient lot and once their basic necessities can not be taken care by salary.Kindly do not put salt to the wounds.The similar lobby is already working under IBA/Govt/Unions.
The Govt talks to a retired clerk for deciding salary of GM.Where it is justified.Mr.Mitra once a Bank Officer is covered under Officer service regulations/CVC/CBI then he should be treated as Officer not like clerk and this is what a lobby of officials is working for as they could not digest the higher salaries for Bankers.If a clerk is promoted in Bank early then it is under the Government Policy prepared by IAS/policy makers in MOF.No body should object to it.
We do not want to further this discussion and for your info,we all did not join Class-I Officer job because the package here was better.
We do feel that because of an inefficient system many un deserving people get promotion early but Banking now is much more challenging than it was.
Lastly we will say do not treat Bankers as animals
Thanks Mr Bank ! You spared the Govt. and the people of India not joining as a Class I officer in Central Govt. Please try to provide some methods to make the Civil Service exam fault free in your leisure time, which is plenty I think. Bye the way, are you engaged in active union ? Because usually they do not get time for work criticizing the rest of the country.
Dear Mr. Chandan,
Now you are agreed to me or not? Could you able to get a single direct reply to any point from Mr. Mirta ? Believe me he is an unqualified person. I know you have affection to Govt. service as it was your previous profession but dear how can you under estimate your current profession. And dear how can you deny the fact of Babuism, fact of irresponsibility, fact of corruption, fact of miss- management we can see in each and every govt. sector.
And dear friend this discussion was not stared to decide supremacy. The point was parity. The point was parity between:-
1. Sweeper to Sweeper (I believe bank premises are cleaner as compared to Govt. offices)
2. Peon to Peon (I believe our Peons are more prompt in attending their task)
3. Driver to Driver (does not require any thing to say)
4. Clerk to Clerk (I believe our clerks are more punctual on their duty and they finish their complete work every day without keeping any backlog for next day)
5. Officer to Officer (Ok. Don’t treat them par with Govt. Officers but will you treat them par with Govt. Nurses? Recently I saw an advertisement in a news paper where vacancies were called for “Male Nurses” in Indian Railway. Will you believe what was their pay scale? It was something around 21000-45000, including grade pay). Our GM gets basic pay at around 30-32k. So, those who think that our GM’s job is less important to a Nurse in Indian railway can support Mr. Mitra.
Soon the day will come when Direct Vacancies for the Post of GM in Public Sector banks will be published in the news papers and qualification required would be “A Graduate Govt. Peon” only, as govt. clerk’s and Nurses will refuse to become General Manager in Banks because they will be already getting higher pay and facilities. And govt. clerks and nurses will find their govt. job more challenging and charming because of their decision making power, while they will find job of a Bank’s GM just like as a post office clerk who do not deliver postages on bicycle.
Referring to Bank December 28, 2009 11:12 AM:
QUOTE:
"we all did not join Class-I Officer job because the package here was better"
UNQUOTE:
"Empty vessel sounds more"
Referring SHYAM SINGH, 28, 2009 10:04 PM:
QUOTE:
"Recently I saw an advertisement in a news paper where vacancies were called for “Male Nurses” in Indian Railway. Will you believe what was their pay scale? It was something around 21000-45000, including grade pay"
UNQUOTE:
"Pay-Band neither construct Pay-Scale nor determine gross salary in central govt in middle class jobs"
Mr.AM appears to have never been able to control clerks if any worked under him during his tenure as clerk/office and he is branding every body as clerk.Mr AM just learn some Management techs to Manage clerks.We think that you have been harassed by some Bank employees and Mr.Chandan has never come out of clerical attitude i.e. under estimating the people i.e.Bank Employee.According to him no Bank employee can pass IAS and for him passing a class I officer exam is impossible.In our view a person clearing SBI PO exam can easily pass UPSC CPO Exam.and for your info Many POs in our group did not join that service in early nineties.
Please Read the news papers where every govt employee is branded as Babu because of inefficiency.
any way this is the Definition of clerk for all of you.
1. a person employed, as in an office, to keep records, file, type, or perform other general office tasks.
2. a salesclerk.
3. a person who keeps the records and performs the routine business of a court, legislature, board, etc.
4. a member of the clergy; ecclesiastic.
5. a lay person charged with various minor ecclesiastical duties.
6. Archaic.
a. a person who is able to read, or to read and write.
b. a scholar.
–verb (used without object)
7. to act or serve as a clerk.
Mr.AM You are also a clerk fitted in the above definition.Even Supreme court has said that GOD can not run this country.
It was because of the clerical mentality which is ruining this country because clerical mentality do not look at the solutions but problems.
Mr.AM you are suffering with the clerical phobia ,because you are being torchered by clerks and you are defending the inefficiencies .
We told that we should not further the discussion because the discussion is always with the people who talk sense.
Put the full stop to this discussion.
Referring Bank December 29, 2009 6:28 PM 29, 2009 6:28 PM:
QUOTE:
1)"Mr.Chandan has never come out of clerical attitude"
UNQUOTE:
"Bank Officers'(not executives) are also popularly referred as Higher Grade Clerks since long, in the discussion circle of job aspirants."
QUOTE:
2)"A person clearing SBI PO exam can easily pass UPSC CPO Exam."
UNQUOTE:
" Discussion is here on Civil Service Exam of UPSC and pinpoint is All India Service IAS, not on Central Police Force (Assistant Commandant) Exam of UPSC, which covers only:
i) General Ability & Intelligence.
ii)Essay, Precis Writing & Comprehension.
Most inferior exam of UPSC even below the rank of CDS Exam.In between written and interview there is a screening on PeT. Ratio of written qualifying for PeT is around 30:1."
QUOTE:
3)"Many POs in our group did not join that service in early nineties"
UNQUOTE:
"Shri Prafulla Chandra Mishra, IAS Id No. 020200 01/09/1982;RR M.A. (Eco.) Topper of 1982 Civil Service Exam(Sl No:1)had resigned from SBI PO to join in IAS."
OBSERVATION:
i)"In 1992 there was an Exam of SBI PO for 400 vacancies.At that time the minimum qualification for SBI PO was a simple graduate. The final result was declared in 1995 after long three years and in between 1992-95 there was no further PO exam in SBI. Question is: What type of talent could have born three years gap between interview and appointment?"
ii)"Latest vacancy of 3500 SBI PO enabled many with low vision & capability on competitive, to get through it, because of such a large record vacancy in the history of SBI PO. Aspirants failed in GL Exam of Staff Selection Commission, GOI, this time easily got into SBI PO only to prove the job degraded."
Mr.Chandan It is not Bank PO verses IAS but Group A Officers.According to you Group A Officer exam is inferior.However they are also getting the same salary which IAS gets.We do not think you have ever cleared any of these exams or come close to it.From comments it is clear that you cleared two/three clerical exam and took a decision to remain as a clerk so that you are not responsible for anything and enjoy the rights of daily wager under labour act.
Now look at the position of Security Officers who came from Armed Forces and joined the Bank as Scale I.They were also class I Officers and joined Bank for better conditions.Now tell us what is their mistake and why the package is reduced to their disadvantage.
Reasons why Bankers are at the lowest ebb because they are represented by a retred clerk who has got protection under labour act.These people run with the hare and hunt with the hound.
Look at the position of a Branch Manager.
1.Getting the work done from people who have protection under Labour Act.
2.Clerks only look at the red voucher for over time because they are 10 to 5 folks.
3.Any customer query they forward it to BM without providing any solution.
Bank Officer has to work as administrator,bureaucrat and public servent and also as a clerk(because are mercenaries who are to be paid over time)
Please do not tell what is the standard of exam and respect your officers.They are not clerks as they are responsible
Referring Bank December 30, 2009 5:27 PM:
Dear Mr.Bank,
You are creating much confusion in your comments. Its very difficult for one to follow what is your pinpoint. Sometime you are mentioning it is IAS; again it is Group-A service etc.I never mentioned in my discussion that all Group-A services are ahead of bank officers.Here in this Headlines, I have posted my comment December 22, 2009 12:56 AM which I reproduce here for you.
"chandan said...
Referring to Mr AMITAVA MITRA's comments:
No doubt Indian Administrative Service is the No-1 government service, associate with best talents; but not all jobs available through this exam are.For example, 'Indian Railway Traffic Service' , Indian Postal Service , Group-B Allied jobs which, one has to get through the same rigorous preparation of IAS, are far behind of RBI Grade-B or SBI PO in competitive market in our country. Even another job Indian Economic & Statistical Service does not fetch much importance though being a group-A service."
Mr. Bank, Group-A known as Central Services and these officer's basic in fourth cpc was started from Rs 2200/- with Rs 75/- starting increment.They are not the category of All India Services like IAS, IFS,IPS.These three All India Categories basic starts from Rs 3000/- with starting increment Rs 100/-. Accordingly in fifth cpc starting basic of Group-A is Rs 8000/- with Rs 250/- increment, where All India Category it was Rs 10000/- with Rs 300/-increment. So please find the difference.
In my bank, a big size nationalised one, our Security and Hindi Officers are simultaneously utilised to deliver branch stationary from RO to Branches on their so called inspection/visit to different branches.These people are white elephants for this industry. Their one point purpose is ,how to earn more and more TA &DA. Am I(17 years complete in Bank) wrong Mr Bank?
If there was no award staff union, where was the existance of Officer's union? Had you ever met Com Tarekeswar Chakraborty, the man who formed today's UFBU? Had you heard TC ever?
You coined the term "respect your officers" I ask why and what for? You also pleaded a lot on Branch Managers.Shall I start to unmask the other face of Branch Managers on their roll involved in loan & advances, compromise proposals etc etc? I think I should not.If I do it here it will be a collective negative impact on all of us who are/were in bank services.
I don't know whether you are a bank officer or an ex job aspirant. But your last two comments posted on working days at December 29, 2009 6:28 PM& December 30, 2009 5:27 PM when quartely closing for DECEMBER is going on in all Banks. Timing to be noted by all members.In a CBS and present work structure, a responsible scale III or IV SBI Officer, what Mr Bank definitely should be by now, being recruited in nineties(of my time), gets these timings to attend internet blog is unbelievable.If it is so, then what morality has he to say against others, on this or that? Thanks.
Wish you all a happy & prospective NEW YEAR-2010.
Referring to my comment on December 30, 2009 11:17 PM"
A small rectification.Please read:
"Accordingly in fifth cpc starting basic of Group-A was Rs 8000/- with Rs 275/- increment, where All India Category it was Rs 10000/- with Rs 325/-increment"
Thanks.
Mr Chandan , the discussion was not with you but with Mr.AM. Do not take the things personally and do not preach the timings when the blog is to be attended and when not. For your Info an Officer shall be available for duty 24x7x365 and is equal to a slave in today’s Banking Industry. We have to also attend to our families and we do not write blog at 10.30 PM or 11.00PM LIKE YOU.We do not mix work with family and for your info. If you are efficient, you need not sit late and if you are sitting late, in most of the case it is for the red voucher, which clerks get for sitting late. The Bank is not compensating enough for your honest efforts if any (You have classified Officers in your Bank as clerks ) . The morality can not be defined by you., For your info we have also worked under GOI at responsible position (not clerk) and do not preach what Govt Job is.
Please reply all the questions and not in isolation.
Most of the inefficiency in Banking sector are attributable to following factors (but can not be generalized)
1. 99% problems are created by people with clerical attitude whether in Govt. or in Bank i.e. this is not my job, come tomorrow, concerned person not on seat and time is over etc. It is not that all clerks are inefficient and all officers are efficient. (not generalized but based on experience )
2. Timings are sometimes driven by law (see NI act).
3. Processes are also not aligned with today’s realities .i.e. many Bank’s have not reengineered the processes.
4. Huge gap in the skill of the people at all levels (not all people have requisite skills).Only 20% staff actually do the job of 100%.
You have not read the 6th Pay commission report, salary of IAS Officer also start at Rs.15600 (PB-3),they may get some additional increments like SBI Officers.
As regards TC/CHV, these are the people , who are responsible for the plunging of Bank employees to todays level .They call strike on non-sense issues and causing loss to members. They have always served the interest of left, which has never worked in favor of Bank employee. The Bank employees now have lost all the respect in the society. These people are parasite on the system and welfare of the employees is missing from their dictionary. So please do not praise these people.
They will again cheat you by accepting negative features of 6th CPC.
You know what is the performance of Banking leaders(self appointed)
As regards utilisation of specialist officers,if the incidents given by you are true than this may be the doing erstwhile clerks reaching a Management position and it is a sheer wastage of Officers and they should lodge complaint with appropriate authority.
Please do not waste your time whole night writing on the blog and please take care of your family.
Leave every thing on fate and do the karma and there is nothing personal.
hii guys , wish u all a very happy & propserous new year .
The Indian bureaucracy is the root cause for mass scale corruption and backwardness of the country. Mr Mitra compare yourself with the performance of the government officers of Japan and Germany etc and their integrity levels. It is true that IAS officers cannot be compared with the officers of a Bank as IAS officer shoulder wide variety of responsibilities but it is does not mean that bankers are dumb heads.
Referring Bank,January 2, 2010 3:31 PM:
POINT WISE REPLY:
Bank:Do not take the things personally and do not preach.
Chandan:Don’t find anything personal. This is a discussion comparing jobs in banking with govt.
Bank:If you are efficient, you need not sit late.
Chandan:Kindly do not put salt to the wounds. The similar lobby is already working under bank management/ IBA.
Bank:99% problems are created by people with clerical attitude whether in Govt. or in Bank i.e. this is not my job, come tomorrow, concerned person not on seat and time is over etc.
Chandan:Complex between direct recruit bank officer and Indian civil service now results to be a complex between the so called born bank officer and mere bank clerk along with the bank officer promoted from bank clerk.
Bank:Timings are sometimes driven by law (see NI act).
Chandan:Shop & Establishment Act applied only to Workmen in bank.
Bank:Processes are also not aligned with today’s realities .i.e. many Bank’s have not reengineered the processes.
Chandan:May be.
Bank:Huge gap in the skill of the people at all levels (not all people have requisite skills).
Chandan:Sometime look upward. Please explain the gap from the level of GM to Chairman to enrich our knowledge.
Bank:Only 20% staff actually do the job of 100%.
Chandan:Leave everything on fate and do the karma.
Bank:You have not read the 6th Pay commission report, salary of IAS Officer also start at Rs.15600 (PB-3),they may get some additional increments like SBI Officers.
Chandan:Please draw a fitment chart for newly recruited IAS and as well as Group-A as per sixth cpc for a compare.
Bank:As regards TC/CHV, these are the people, who are responsible for the plunging of Bank employees to today’s level .They call strike on non-sense issues and causing loss to members.
Chandan:CHV is something different. Taking a proper stock on TC is beyond your capability. Note: P.Lakshmi Narasaiah GS AISBISF/ NCBE was raised from a sub-staff.
Bank:The Bank employees now have lost all the respect in the society.
Chandan:Reasons are not clear.
Bank:They will again cheat you by accepting negative features of 6th CPC.
Chandan:What are the negative features of sixth cpc?
Bank:You know what is the performance of banking leaders(self appointed).
Chandan:There is conference and selection/election for that purpose; not self appointed.
Thanks.
RISK:
Today we bank employees are facing different types of risk in our day to day function. Two high-risk today we have to face are:
1)Verifying Apparent Signature of the account holder.There is no protection if matter goes wrong.
2)In the name of Customer Satisfaction, a free pass has been provided to public to misbehave & misuse bank employees.The feeling, that an citizen of India is delivering bank service to another citizen of the same country is, quite absent among customers.
Invite suggestions & remedies.
Thanks.
Dear Mr Bank,
On January 3, 2010 2:08 AM, I have submitted my point wise reply to your quarries, which is waiting for your kind approval/disapproval.
Thanks.
Mr.Chandan 2.08 A.M.
What we have told every thing apply on you.We told you to take proper sleep.However to prove your reactive ness you are writting blogg when every body is sleeping.
We feel that you are a normal man,plese do not prove otherwise.
Referring Bank January 11, 2010 6:02 PM:
"Clear conscience never fears midnight knocking"
By their communication dt 25.07.2012, Ministry of Finance has advised IBA to rescind their addition of ‘on superannuation’ and ask Banks to, offer pension-option to all ‘retirees’ as per settlement. It is clear that the then officials of IBA, who had RESIGNED from their Banks, to take up Chairmanship of other Banks and had been allowed pension option, should be made to bear the entire cost of the writs forced on the hapless retirees. They should pay the expenses, now charged to tax-payers’ money, and reimburse the costs incurred by both IBA and the plaintiffs, as it is due to their folly and obstinacy, untold misery has been inflicted upon the Senior Citizens, and several of them have died due to shock and despair.
A Shreevas
Shree Ananth-August 2, 2012 9:13 PM.
Your news is good. However it will be very good if you can provide a copy of the government letter dated 25/07/2012 for the information of all so that their mind gets a clear picture as to what has to be done next.
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