AIBEA Version :
"ANNUAL WAGE INCREASE OF RS. 4816 CRORES FROM
1-11-2007
ONE MORE OPTION FOR PENSION ACHIEVED
WE DEDICATE THIS ACHIEVEMENT TO THE MEMORY OF
COM. PRABHAT KAR ON HIS 25TH DEATH ANNIVERSARY DAY
Yes, today, 27-11-2009, is the 25th death anniversary of our great leader and doyen of bank employees trade union movement, Com. Prabhat Kar. On this solemn day and during the centenary year of this father of our movement, we deem it a befitting commemoration and tribute to his life-long pioneering role in shaping up the service conditions of bank employees that the Minutes have been signed with the IBA on our wage revision demand and more importantly, securing another option for more than 3 lacs of employees/officers/retirees to get the benefit of our unique pension scheme.
Salient features:
a) Annual wage increase of Rs. 4816 ( Rs. 2239 crores for officers and Rs. 2576 crores for workmen employees ) w.e.f. 1-11-2007.
b) All the existing employees who are now in PF scheme will be given an option to join the existing pension scheme.
c) All those who have retired after the date of Pension Regulations till date will also be given an option to join the pension scheme.
d) Full settlement on the above to be finalized within 90 days.
Wage revision – what we have achieved:
|
| 7th BPS | 8th BPS | NOW |
| Additional annual wage load | 12.25 % | 13.30 % | 17.50 % |
| Total quantum of annual wage increase (Officers & Workmen) |
1497 crores |
2200 crores |
4816 crores |
| Annual Average Per Capita Increase Ø For Workmen employees Ø For Officers |
12,550 24,025 |
23,300 43,600 |
56,200 91,800 |
ONE MORE OPTION TO JOIN PENSION SCHEME
– A UNIQUE ACHIEVEMENT:
In 1993, after bitter struggles and against all odds, AIBEA and AIBOA achieved pension scheme for bank employees. Today, once again, with the leading role of AIBEA and AIBOA, another milestone has been anchored. More than 3 lacs bank employees, officers and retirees will now get another option to join the pension scheme to insulate themselves with this unique social security benefit. It is a very commendable achievement indeed.
Dear comrades, with the signing of this Minutes, the main understandings have been reached. Now the UFBU will be taking steps to expedite the final settlement with revised pay scales, allowances and other improvements and thereafter for implementation of the same and payment of arrears to the employees.
Dear comrades, on this happy occasion, it is necessary to remind ourselves that these achievements were preceded by persistent efforts and protracted negotiations by the leadership of UFBU and backed up by the exemplary unity of the bank employees and officers and their successful participation in the strike actions. It is the result of our unity, militancy and perseverance."
Source : AIBEA (The text is as available with AIBEA website)
SBI Association walked out of the meeting, NPS for new entrants w.e.f 01.04.10.
Representatives of SBI employees unions walked out of the deal saying their interests were not protected. But with the United Federation of Banking Unions, the body that represented nine employees associations, signing the minutes of the meeting, the deal is said to have been clinched. Now SBI employees would have to negotiate with the management to ensure that their interests are protected.
SBI Officers may go in strike.
Wage Increases and Pension Option
Wage increase
Banks (all public sector banks, some old generation private sector banks and a few foreign banks) have agreed to an aggregate annual wage increase of Rs 4,816 crore (or 17.5 per cent increase over the collective establishment cost of Rs 27,520 crore as on March-end 2007 on account of employees), said Mr K. Unnikrishnan, Deputy Chief Executive, IBA.
About seven lakh bank employees, including officers, clerical and award staff, will stand to gain due to the wage revision, said Mr Vishwas Utagi, General Secretary, All Bank of Maharashtra Employees Association.
Further, 2.72 lakh existing employees and 35,000 retired employees will benefit as another option for pension is being extended to non-pension optees.
The total liability on account of existing employees exercising the pension option is Rs 6,000 crore and that due to retired employees is Rs 3,116 crore. The gap in the pension liability will be shared between banks (70 per cent) and employees (30 per cent).
Retired employees
Retired employees (non-pension optees), who were in the service of the bank as on September 29, 1995 and March 26, 1996 and retired thereafter, choosing the pension option will be required to return the bank's contribution to the provident fund with interest thereof received by them at the time of retirement.
Further, they have to contribute to the pension fund their share of 30 per cent of the gap in pension fund.
Existing employees (non-pension optees) can exercise the pension option by contributing to the pension fund their share of 30 per cent of the gap in pension fund.
This contribution will be recovered from the arrears payable on wage revision.
According to the agreement, a defined contributory retirement benefit scheme will be introduced for workmen/ officers joining the services of banks on or after April 1, 2010.
Though SBI employee representatives too were part of the negotiations, they were unhappy with the pension agreement as the pension scheme of other public sector banks is better, said Mr Utagi.
The IBA and the unions will finalise the joint note within three months.
(With inputs from Business Standard and Hindu Business Line.)
819 comments :
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I came to know that IBA accepting 2836 points of merger with loading of Basic Pay at 20% increase for officers 22%clerical and 25% sub staff.
New DA formula 2288/2836*0.18=0.145218 will rounding off to 2digits it will come 0.15 for every rise of 4 points ie per slab. Whereas I found it in approximate new pay chart it is 0.14 If we agree 0.14 for example 213*0.14=29.82% DA instead 31.95%(213*0.15), we will be loosing 2.13% on revised basic pay. Please make a note and put it in the next meeting with IBA
Dear Balan Sir,I have resigned the bank in Nob 2007 under medical grounds as per Doctors advice.At that time I was told that beeing a PF optee Ishould only use the word resign.My date of birth is 28-1-1949.Joined the bank in 18-07-1973.Resigned on 07-11-2007.Total service 34 years 4 months.Please clarify am I eligble for pension option.
TO MR IYER
Your remarks are marvelous indeed.
If I happen to be lead members against mergers and acquisitions, my memorandum to IBA and Government would be as under:-
01.
There should not be any merger of banks or acquisitions of banks.
02.
In case it is inevitable, all staff members irrespective of their cadre and affiliations to different unions should not be disturbed from their present place of working unless at their own requests.
03.
In case it is inevitable, all staff members irrespective of their affiliations should be granted at least 5 additional increments in their respective scales.
04.
There should not be any cessation or termination of service of any employee due to mergers.In case it is inevitable, each such employee should be paid compensation equivalent to his last drawn salary for his entire remaining service (till the date of his retirement) and pension payment as per his eligibility.
05.
In case an employee is disturbed, it should be for a period of only one year and during such disturbance he must be adequately compensated as claimed by him in order to maintain two establishments at his place of choice.
Instead of demanding monitory compensations for mergers and acquisitions or any type of disturbance to staff members if unions proceed further by calling strikes, as you have rightly said it will definitely attract the wrath of public as well as staff members.
But unfortunately some unions are worried about their identity instead of the welfare of their members.
TO MR IYER
Your remarks are marvelous indeed.
If I happen to be lead members against mergers and acquisitions, my memorandum to IBA and Government would be as under:-
01.
There should not be any merger of banks or acquisitions of banks.
02.
In case it is inevitable, all staff members irrespective of their cadre and affiliations to different unions should not be disturbed from their present place of working unless at their own requests.
03.
In case it is inevitable, all staff members irrespective of their affiliations should be granted at least 5 additional increments in their respective scales.
04.
There should not be any cessation or termination of service of any employee due to mergers.In case it is inevitable, each such employee should be paid compensation equivalent to his last drawn salary for his entire remaining service (till the date of his retirement) and pension payment as per his eligibility.
05.
In case an employee is disturbed, it should be for a period of only one year and during such disturbance he must be adequately compensated as claimed by him in order to maintain two establishments at his place of choice.
Instead of demanding monitory compensations for mergers and acquisitions or any type of disturbance to staff members if unions proceed further by calling strikes, as you have rightly said it will definitely attract the wrath of public as well as staff members.
But unfortunately some unions are worried about their identity instead of the welfare of their members.
Increase the stage for clerical and subordinate staff annual increment from 20th to 36th stage in the 9th Bipartite Settlement as done in 6th pay commission. It will be helpful for new entrance also. Most of the employees are above 25 years of service. Remove the class Stagnation Increment. Nowadays working condition in banks entirely changed. Technology upgradation changed the atmosphere in banking. New settlement will be attract the existing and also to the new entrance.
From allbankingsolutions.com
- it is inferred that the date of commutation would be considered as the date on the commutation is encashed which is against the benefit of the retirees, it should be the date of retirement as to the fact that their employer's pf contribution to be returned with interest from the date of their retirement, is it not?
- again, the date of pension for the calculation purpose is considered to be prospective date which is against the benefit of the retirees, it should be the date of retirement as to the reason that their employer's pf contribution to be returned with interest from the date of their retirement, is it not?
- above all, the possibility of updating of pension / neutralization of cent percent DA is not possible in the context of MOU arrived on 27.11.2009, then what for IBA is compelling the poor retirees to share to the tune of 30% of BURDEN ARISING OUT OF THE INCREASE IN PROVISION BECAUSE OF WAGE REVISION. PF OPTEES BOTH EXISTING AND RETIRED HAS TO SHARE THE NET ADDITIONAL COST ESTIMATED IE 1800 CRORES.
- is it not AGAINST the advantage to the retirees who are suppressed till date from getting the eligible pension derived from their right and not as a gift ?
Swami said,December 6, 2009 12:05 PM: I am a sub committee member in my bank level.BUT DEAR MR SWAMI WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW? NO NEWS ON 12 DEC BPS TALKS FROM YOU. Yesterday (12/12/09) afternoon, I got information from Mumbai that wage hike is like this: Basic x 1.69 + DA 26.97% with Nov-09 hike + HRA no change of percentage. DA slab 0.145, neither 0.14 nor 0.15. Please confirm us the status.With thanks.
Dear Mr. Chandan,
As per BEFI proposal for scale of clerks/sub.staff will be as follows ;
' The Unions decided to construct pay scales for clerical and
subordinate staff by merger of DA at 2836 point of price index and, thereafter, adding load factor at 22% and
25% respectively; new rate of DA to be @ .15% per slab over 2836 point of price index'.
Mohan P
andan,
1.69 factor is too big to swallow condiering the 17.5% ceiling. based on 1.69 factor officers starting salary will be 17000 . CLERICAL SALARY STARTING WILL BE 7500 do you think it will come. please verify the source once again.
k balasuberamnian
Dear Balan sir , Shankar sir,
Thanks for your prompt response to my query. Mr Shankar has said that the number of people who were forced to use the word "resign" as there was no VRS system in the bank is very very small. I hope that they are also given one more option for pension as they have quit the bank after serving diligently for decades, only due to urgent family, personal or medical reasons.
For the benefit of those bank employees / officers (PF Optees)retired eight years back under vrs or on superannuation if pension /commutation calculation charts are posted it will be of great help.
I have received a SMS from our State Gen Secretary who got the news from one Mr J C Shah, a member of the sub-committee - it is said. As per the news, officers' basic pay would be in the range of Rs.16000 - 62400 with increment ranging from Rs.750 to 1600. No change in HRA percentage while the lower and higher CCA cap would be at Rs.500 and 750. Packing charges on transfer (presently Rs.7000) would be for S-I TO III Rs.20000 and S.IV and above: Rs.30000. If it happens, it would be the biggest ever settlement as claimed by Mr C H Venkatachalam - in his reply to one of my e-mails. And, the entry level people would also be happy.
respected balan sir
namaskar
at the very outset i want to clarify that i am not a bank employee but my wife is scale 1 officer in a public sector bank, i am a state govt employee, we usually quarrel about the working hours of my wife. I need your valuable suggestion she is 30 years and had had service of about 10 years, if she leaves the bank i mean to say that if she resigns now would she be able to get pension benefit and she wishes to do pursue mba after caiib what would be the best option keeping in view of her age and her future prospects, hopw you will reply
with respectful namaskar
ammu
IF the starting basic for officers is above 16000/- its a dream come through for officers
Hoping for it
Minimum service to get pension is 20 years.(not sure if it is 15 or 20 years)
kindly correct me if i am wrong
Thank you Iyer for the valuable news. It is really a great achievement on the part of unions but in reality this may not be sufficient for the officers for their workload and risk.
Dear Mr.Balan Sir,
I wanted to know the full details of full pension particulars in nationalised bank employees. Such as how to calculate pension. How much service to get full pension. Define "Pay" for the purpose of calculating full pension. Auto updation of pension. Please clarify.
Elangovan.P
Tiruchirapalli
Dear Balan sir , Shankar sir,
Request to reply the following quarries:
1) Can bank employees get full pension after 20 years of service as done by sixth cpc, as because 1993/95 pension scheme is guided by central govt pension scheme?
2)Fifth cpc had implemented 40% pension commutation, 300 days stock for earned leave, paternity leave etc. Sixth cpc improved many of these further. Why 40% commutation or 300 days E.L. has not been achieved in our service conditions? Note 1/3rd commutation or 240 days E.L. concept borrowed from central govt service to our industry once upon a time.
3)I apprehend there is every possibility of reduction of commutation table in nineth bps, as done in sixth cpc.What do you think?
4)In a related quarry C.H.VENCATACHALAM replied me that, this time govt/iba also offered ten years revision for bank employees as done for govt employees.You must be aware that central psu salary revision this time converted from five years to ten years.By accepting ten years wage revision in place of five years, this time we could have been achieved 30% hike minimum and it would have been instrumental to keep the flow of talents to our industry for the time-being.Isn't a mistake/blunder of the union for not swiching over from five to ten years wage revision? Note gradually five years wage revision is losing its reality in our country in many sectors & recent central psu including navaratnas, wage revision can one of its case-study.
Dear Chandan
accepting the 10 years settlement is suiscidel.
The central govt. employees also lost by way of grade pay instead of increase in BASIC. The grade pay is constant.
Many benefits provided to govt employees are not linked to DA or basic. Though it looks very attractive right now they will loose their value with in 4 to 5 years.
Our leaders have done right thing in not accepting 10 years settlement.
My father who worked in central has seen only two pay commissions and has retiredy the time the third was due.
Dear aaaa (December 14,2009 10:29PM),
Thanks for your clarification but sorry to say that, you reply to someone who once upon a time (1984-92) was an experienced asst in staff & establishment matters in state & central govt, for long eight years combinely. Upto fourth cpc thinks are not so encouraging in salary package. Fifth & sixth are quite different than previous cpcs.Here all are discussing on only starting and ending point of a scale of govt employees while comparing, like our undepth union leaders. Try to study the position of an employee having 10 to 12 years or 15 years service in same scale in central govt during third or fourth cpc vs in fifth & sixth cpc.Please note sixth cpc's MACP is inferior to fifth"s ACP for an employee.
Grade pay is equally good like basic.This attract D.A./ HRA & increment 3%. It is better than our special pays in bank.Note transport allowance in sixth cpc attract D.A.
Whenever central D.A, will reach 50% as per sixth cpc, 25% out of it automatically will be converted to D.P. In Jan-2011 it will reach 50%; thanks to present inflation in cpi.
I am also very sorry to find that except three/four none others in this blog has a clear cut idea on service conditions.Sometimes it appears they think and express their views in their dreams.I think why it is so!
There has been many a query on applicability of Pension. Pension eligibility is 10 years for those people who retire on attaining the age of superannuation. It is payable on pro-rata basis i.e. basic pension*years of service/33. For getting full pension one has to complete 33 years of service. On VRS which is allowed after 20 yerars of service, a notional service equal to left over service subjecct to maximum of 5 years is added. Incomplete service if any of over 6 months is treated as full years' service. Hence, if any employee goes on VRS and is relieved on completing 27 years, six months and one day is eligible for full pension.
Somebody was comparing our pension with that of Govt employees on issues like computation of 40% etc., Please understand our pension is the best one. Our computation factor is far superior to that of Govt employees. If any body still insists, I can post both the tables for comparison.
Somepeople are talking about 10 years wage revision. Why such unnecessary imaginations! these things are so wild that if implemented it will tantamount to prove to be fatal in the interest of bank employees.
Why no body is comparing ourselves with other public sector enterprises. Again there are lot of disparities and predicaments amongst PSUs.
It is hightime we try to feel content. Onething we should never forget. Once bank people had a very raw deal with their employers. Over the years there have been huge improvements in our service conditions and monetary benefits. These were not given freely. We had to fight under some exceptional leadership.
Pension is calculated, taking into account, the Basic Pay, PQA, Basic pay portion of FPA. In otherwords all those components which qualify for PF are considered for arriving at basic pension. It is also based on the average of last ten months pay. The average pay is divided by 2 (50% of pay is basic pension). Depending upon completed years of service, the qualifying basic pension is arrived. i.e. persons with 33 years of service will get full pension and for any lesser service it is payable on pro rata. Computation is arrived as under: 1/3rd basic pension*12*computation factor. Computation factor is arrived on the basis of completed years of age 'next birthday'. For example a person is taking VRS and is relieved on April 28th 2009. His date of birth is 18.05.1956. In this case the factor will be for 53 years (i.e. 12.38). Persons retiring on superannuation will get factor for 61 years.
PAY COMMISSION OR BIPARTITE WHICH IS BETTER
I am trying to analyse the matter with whatever little knowledge in this regard and my interest towards the salary data since I joined in the bank during 1976.
During 1970s and 1980s bank bipartite settlements were superior because of the increment pattern. The first stage and last stage variation is around 300% With DA neutralization and with increase of consumer price index, gap between the LDC/UDC of government employees and bank clerks were gone up. Just as we commented about IT employee’s salary in the early 2000 in the marriage market, bank clerks were the target of CARTOONS and JOKES in the Tamil magazines. Officer’s pre 1979 scales were also high. IN PNB starting scale of officers was 700. CLASS I OFFICERS /LECTURERS scale was 400-40-800-50-1600
Having worried about the disparity in the CLASS I OFFICERS SALARY when compared to the BANKS SALARY (some banks like canara bank, bank of India, bank of Baroda and PNB scales were superior and in some banks like INDIAN BANK, IOB scales were inferior) the GOVERNMENT appointed Pillai committee
And the associations were forced to accept in consensus because of the benefit accrued to many of the bank officers. If they have shown the resistance, the officers union belongs to the banks, which are paying less salary, are ready to split and accept the committee recommendation, which is superior. From that time onwards industry wide settlement has started for bank officers also. For your information I resigned the college lecturer job to join as a clerk in INDIAN BANK because of the excellent promotional opportunities the moment CAIIB is completed. MY lecturer salary was 470 total. Clerical graduate salary was 512.
BANK union leaders were the most respected entity. Comrade Prabahtkar of AIBEA, LV. Subramanian of SBI the unquestioned leader of AICOBOO (ALL INDIA CONFEDERATION OF BANK OFFICERS ORGANISATION). From that only the major unit of AIBOC was formed due to difference of opinion with the then leadership. One great leader of AIBOC is Sri R.N Godbole.The superiority of bank employees/ officers reflected in the society till 1986.
IV TH PAY COMMISSION of 1986 saw a sea change and started moving in a vertically upward direction. This was not because of the bargaining power of the central government employees union but for the ATTITUDE OF THE GOVERNMENT HEADED BY LATE SRI RAJIV GANDHI. He was the Architect of five-day week concept. His mantra that government employees must be paid well was received well. A 30% across the board increase made the LDCS/UDCS of central government to narrow down the gap that prevailed with bank clerks.
Class I officers starting salary was 2200. In the 1997 settlement we fixed our salary as 2100.OK no problem.
V TH PAY COMMISSION of 1996 also gave liberal bonanza of around 30-35% increase. The government accepted only positive features of the pay commission.
The starting salary of Class I officer was 8000.
We had an intermediate settlement and the subsequent
settlement coincided with V th pay commission had our starting salary fixed as 7100.This also can be swallowed. In the name of cost IBA cleverly denied the parity based on which the salaries were standardized during 1979. Everybody forgot the history. We, rather we call as our leaders were very much happy with 13 to 15% issue once in five years as that was the standard yardstick we had in previous settlement which made them to think their bargaining powers were intact. 100% true if we not going to take the relativity theory.
(to be concluded )
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
CLINCHING OF PENSION ISSUE during 1993 was a very good historic achievement. Here also when the regulation itself was accepted based on the central governments pension scheme, several salient features like pension updation, family pension was not copied down exactly. with the result the family pension prevailing is poor and not comparable. They are denying pension up dation even to RBI.
Due to certain onerous clauses in the pension scheme like forfeiture of pension on participating strike, break in service etc. some few thousands might not have opted for. Majority among the PF optees had taken the AIBOC/BEFI circulation of pamphlets with an advice to stay away from pension. Whatever may be the reason, when the IBA withdrew the break in service/forfeiture clause, one more final option should have been given as a principle of natural justice and even legally as one of the terms and conditions of pension regulation is getting altered. Unions were not aggressive enough and called for strike on this specific issue.
Having allowed the issue to cool enough, it was very difficult to make it red-hot and even though a specific MOU was signed during 2008 to sort out the pension issue with in 90 days, no follow up was made. GOLDEN OPPURTUNITY prior to the announcement of loksabha polls was missed. If not wage revision at least pension option should have been settled without cost because of the proximity of the left with the power center.
Having seen that IBA/GOVT was so adamant slowly the talk of cost sharing. , appointment of actuaries gained momentum. When the industry as a whole has earned profit of more than 50000 crores during the last three years, the issue would have been clinched without cost had the appropriate time was chosen.
The major difference among the bank employees/officers and government employees/classI officers are coming from the VI th pay commission recommendations.
VI TH PAY COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS;
Starting pay of 15600 plus grade pay of 5400 making the entrypoint basic itself to 21000. Combining with DA rate of 35% ( updated to Jan 2010 probable figures of 8 % increase in DA )PLUS HRA of 30% making salary levels. Starting around 35000 cca transport allowance, education allowance not included.
As against this our most optimistic projection of 16000( it may happen or may not +29% DA+8% HRA ,we are lagging behind by 7000. Since officers are getting lease based accommodation , persons who are availing the lease can get the benefit of higher HRA indirectly. It is the officers who are occupying the own houses and ENTIRE AWARD staff community are getting affected. In these spiraling rentals single digit HRA is most humiliating for the people who are not getting lease based accommodation. Grade pay upto a maximum of 12000 as the acdre goes up is not available for bank staff both officers and clerks.
If 16000 starting and 60000 ending materializes, then only allowances like grade pay , improved HRA for all , other improvements may be pending which should be taken in 2012 settlement. UFBU should get 30 to 40% in 2012 settlement so as to match the pay commission . Cost of pension which is an irritating concept should be given a go bye in 2012 and pension up dation should be taken up .Only if we equalize with the VI th pay commission we can think which is better.
.
(TO BE CONCLUDED)
Government financial position will be better known during 2016 , and if it finds it became unmanageable , then VII th pay commission may come in time or it may get delayed indefinitely, to be decided by the then political leadeship at that time. So instead of waiting IF IBA OFFERS INTOTAL PARITY IN ALL RESPECTS THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN ACCEPTING A 8 YEAR SETTLEMENTS AS FOR AS OFFICERS ARE CONCERNED.IT CAN BE SYNCHRONISED WITH 31.12.2015. WHATEVER GOVERNMENT DECIDES FOR THEIR OFFICERS wef 2016 OR SUBSEQUENTLY can be made automatically applicable to bank officers also.
As for as award staff is concerned the clerical stages should be extended to atleast 25 from the present 19. If they want to give some more responsibility clerical after 15 years of service can be designated as SENIOR CLERKS like UDC or can be termed as HIGHER GRADE ASSISTANTS. IF IBA accepts 8000 starting and moving upto 28000 or 30000 with separate grade pay /special allowances for cash etc as per the present practice, then there is nothing wrong in accepting 8 year settlement. Since clerks in the financial sector are taking more risk oriented jobs
STARTING PAY CAN BE 50% of the starting pay of the officers.
Ending pay can be 40% of the maximum pay applicable to the general manager.
Bank clerks should be paid more than UDCs in their senior level. Starting can be as that of LDC .
IN FUTURE SETTLEMENT IF THIS TYPE OF PATTERN IS FOLLOWED CLERICAL SALARY FIXATION WILL NOT POS E ANY PROBLEM AS THE RELATIVE DIFFERENCTIAL WITH THE OFFICERS OF THEIR OWN INDUSTRY WILL BE MAINTAINED.
HENCE OVER ALL CONSIDERING THE GOVERNMENT CHANGE IN ATTITUDE I FEEL PAY COMMISSION WITH CERTAIN RELATIVITY THEORY FOR CLERKS RATHER THAN BIPARTITE SETTLEMNET IS BETTER.
SINCE PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES ARE NOT COVERED BY THIS TYPE OF PENSION , GOVERNMENT HAS ALLOWED MORE INCREASE TO THEIR EMPLOYEES AND OFFICERS BETTER THAN VI TH PAY COMMISSISON. NO BIPARTITE. IT IS GOVERNMENTS LEGACY.
GOVERNMENT WILL AUTOMATICALLY RATHER THEY MAY LEFT WITH NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE AS THEY HAVE TO DEFINE AND FIT BANKING SECTOR EITHER IN THE GOVERNMENT CATEGORY OR PUBLIC SECTOR CATEGORY AND DEFINITELY NOT IN TRISANGU SORGAM CATEGORY.
AS A RETIRED PENSIONER WHO IS EXPECTING FULL DA NEUTRALISTION OR POSSIBLE PENSION UPDATION IN FUTURE IF AT ALL COMES , I FEEL ONLY GOVERNMENT APPOINTED AUTHORITY WILL DECIDE WELL THEN THIS IBA WHO IS INDEPENDENT BODY ONLY I N PAPER AND NOT ACTUALLY SO. IT IS NOT SAFE IN THE HANDS OF IBA.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
ELIGIBILITY OF PENSION AS PER PENSION REGULATION 1995 AND INTERPRETATIONS UNDER THE MOU SIGNED APPLICABILITY :
Pension regulation 1995 is applicable to all employees who are/were in the services of the bank on or after 01 January 1986. QUALIFYING SERVICEMinimum of 10 years of service in the bank as on the date of retirement for pension Broken period More than six months it shall be treated as full year less than six months will be ignored
FORFEITURE SERVICE:RESIGNATION OR DISMISSAL OR REMOVAL OR TERMINATION OF AN EMPLOYEE FROM THE SERVICES OF THE BANK SHALL ENTAIL FORFEITURE OF HIS ENTIRE PAST SERVICE AND CONSEQUENTLY SHALL NOT QUALIFY FOR PENSIONARY BENEFITS.
ELIGIBILITYIn other words the employee must retire from the services of the bank in any one of the following ways so as to make himself eligible forpension.1.ATTAINING SUPER ANNUATIONSUPER ANNUATION PENSION2. VOLUNATARY RETIREMENT (VRS)Employees should have completed twenty years of qualifying service .In such cases the qualifying service of an employee shall be increased bya period not exceeding five years subject to the condition that the total qualifying service rendered by such an employee should not exceed33 years and it does not take him beyond the date of superannuation. NOTE : TO MAKE THE PERSONS ELIGIBLE FOR PENSION AMONG THE PENSION OPTEES UNDER VRS 2000 SCHEME IBA HAS AMENDED THE REGULATION WITH RETROSPECTIVE EFFECT TO MAKE THE QUALIFYING SERVICE UNDER VRS TO 15 YEARS.TREATMENT TO VRS 2000 PENSION OPTEES: IBA after loosing the legal battle permitted member banks to notionally add 5 years of notional service for the purpose of calculating pension for 20 years and above. No five years addition for VRS 2000 15 to less than 20 years category who opted pension. IBA VIEWED THE SCHEME AS A SPECIAL CASE AND THEY HAVE NOT EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE VRS CIRCULAR AND HENCE THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT AND AMBIGUITY WAS ALLOWED TO THE VRS RETIREES BY THE SUPREME COURT.
3. INVALID PENSION : Minimum ten years of service : FOR BODILY OR MENTAL INFIRMITY WHICH PERMANENTLY INCAPABLE OF HIM FOR THE SERVICE.
4. PREMATURE RETIREMENT PENSION 5 COMPULSORY RETIREMENT PENSION.
SO, ALL THE EMPLOYEES WHO OPTED FOR PF OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE TO RETIRE UNDER PENSION REGULATION 1995 WILL BE GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO OPT FOR PENSION.
SINCE VRS SCHEME FOR PF OPTEES WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN MANY BANKS THE INTERPRETATION OF RESIGNATION FROM THE SERVICES HAS TO BE DONE IN FAVOUR OF THE EMPLOYEES. THIS ALSO IS GOING TO BE TICKLISH PROBLEM CONSIDERING THE NATURE OF IBA. UFBU SHOULD BE CAUTIONED WELL IN ADVANCE ABOUT THEIR CASES ALSO FOR FAVOURABLE CONSIDERATION IF THEY ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE AND AS APPLICABLE TO PENSION OPTEE.
WHAT IS APPLICABLE TO PENSION OPTEE IF THEY RESIGN DUE TO DOMESTIC RAESONS OR MEDICAL GROUNDS OR BETTER EMPLOYMENT SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE TO PF OPTEES ALSO.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
Dear Balan Sir,
I am waiting for a point wise indepth opinion from you, on my quarries posted here on December 14, 2009 10:21 PM. I am unable to find any of reply to my quarries from your latest four posts on December 15, 2009.Regarding five days week introduced by Rajiv Gandhi,one financial organisation GIC(New-India/Oriental etc) is one of the beneficiary of it right from 1986.Then why we banks & LIC aren't? Expecting an early reply I remain.
Dear IYER,
With reference to your post December 15, 2009 I like to differ on following points:
1)"Pension eligibility is 10 years for those people who retire on attaining the age of superannuation"
Please note it is (10 years pension provision) also applicable for invalid pension without attending superannuation.
2)"Please understand our pension is the best one. Our computation factor is far superior to that of Govt employees. If any body still insists, I can post both the tables for comparison"
Please post commutation tables of Bank (Nationalised & SBI), Central govt and State govt (Kerala,TN etc) to prove your point and enrich our knowledge in this subject.Please don't forget to establish your facts on "Please understand our pension is the best one" by comparing with GOI PENSION.
NEWS ITEM IN ECONOMIC TIMES CHENNAI EDITION 16 DECEMBER 2009
SBI ALARMED AT MASS STAFF EXODUS.
Mass exodus at everylevel has caught the country s largest lender SBI so much and it learnt to have global consultant MCKINSEY AND CO to lend a helping hand by studying the existing HR issues.
According to SBI circles about 10 to 15 out of every 100 new recruits leave the bank within a very short period after joining .The attrition rates are higher in metros and urban regions.The rate at which fresh employees are leaving is a worrying factor.
COMMENTS: Let this be an eye opener toUFBU / IBA/GOVERNMENT OF INDIA-MINISTRY OF FINANCE all of them jointly took a pledge to push the industry to its lowest ebb by offering ridiculous and peanut wages. Combining with this type of exodus and retirement of senior professionals in the days to come , the fate of the industry is written on the wall.
The concerned authorities should sit immediately and took rectifying measures immediately;
BASIC PAY STRUCTURES FOR OFFICERS MAY BE 20000-70000 AT 2836 INDEX LEVEL WITH SUITABLE STAGES
BASIC PAY STRUCTURES FOR CLERKS 10000-30000 WITH SUITABLE SATGES
GIVE THEM MORE RESPONSIBILITY AND SEE THATTHEY ARE DELIVERING THE GOODS WITH HIGHER SALARY.
NO FOREIGN CONSULTANT IS NECESSARY TO STUDY THIS IMPACT. EVERYONE KNOWS BUT NOBODY WANTS TO BELL THE CAT.
SYSTEM IS LIKE THAT.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
Dear Friends ,
We the Bank employees on the way of getting the wage settlement and one more pension option for non optees including the retirees who were retired after 1995 through UFBU.
Major employees in all the public sector banks, say around 60-75% will retire from the services within next 5 to 6 years on superannuation. Almost 80% of them have reached the Stagnation of pay and many of them may opt for VRS once the settlement is over.
The PSU Banks present employees especially officer and above are doing the donkey service just like slaves without much reward and now all their efforts are being shared for the benefit of retirees (NON PENSION OPTEES).
More than 60% OF THEM WHO WENT ON SPECIAL VRS OR NORMAL VRS AND GOT THE GAINFUL APPOINTMENT. NOW THEY ARE THE MOST BLESSED ONES AND THEY WILL GET A LARGE CHUNK OF AMOUNT SAY MIN 3 LAKHS TO 15 LAKHS AS ARREARS OF PENSION AND COMMUTATION.
EVEN THE SHARE OF PENSION AMOUNT IS MORE TO THEM THAN THE EXISTING EMPLOYEES SHARE TOWARDS PENSION AND WAGE REVISION.
OUR UNIONS HAVE SHED THIS STRUGGLE TO GET IT FOR THESE ERSTWHILE EMPLOYEES BENEFIT FORGETTING THE FUTURE OF THE PRESENT EMPLOYEES.
AN LDC OR AN OFFICER IN CENTRAL GOVT WHO WORK FOR ABOUT 35 TO 40 HOURS IN A WEEK WITH LITTLE RISK AND RESPONSIBILITY GETS THE DOUBLE SALARY OF THE BANK EMPLOYEE(EVEN AFTER REVISION OF SALARY)AND IT IS PAID BY THE TAX PAYERS MONEY, WHERE AS THE PRESENT BANK EMPLOYEE HAS TO SHED THEIR SWEAT TO EARN HIS SALARY OUT OF PROFITS OF THE BANK AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT , THEY HAVE MORE RISKS AND RESPONSIBILITIES AND THEY NEED TO WORK AROUND 60 TO 70 HOURS A WEEK.
SINCE LAST TEN YEARS THE BANKS JOB TURNED TO RED COLORED FROM WHITE.
DID ANYBODY GIVE A THOUGHT ABOUT THESE PERSONS WHO ARE STILL IN SERVICE AND NEED TO CONTINUE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE BANKS AND THE COUNTRY ?.
DO YOU KNOW THE EFFECTS OF INCREASE OF SALARY / WAGES RESTRICTED TO 17.5%?
THE TOTAL PENSION IN PSU BANKS GETS ALMOST DOUBLED THAN THE SALARY PAYMENT OF THE EMPLOYEES EXIST AFTER 3-4 YEARS.
IN VIEW OF THIS, PLEASE VERIFY THE RECENT FINANCIAL RESULTS of BANKS, THE PRESENT EMPLOYEES ARE NOT GETTING GOOD RETURN FOR THEIR EFFORTS OUT OF THE PROFITS EARNED BY THEIR BANKS.
SO, LET THE UFBU LEADERS PONDER FOR A WHILE BEFORE SIGNING THE FINAL WAGE SETTLEMENT WITH THE IBA AND PROTECT THE INTEREST OF EMPLOYEES.
Mr.Achyuth says that,'More than 60% OF THEM WHO WENT ON SPECIAL VRS OR NORMAL VRS AND GOT THE GAINFUL APPOINTMENT. NOW THEY ARE THE MOST BLESSED ONES AND THEY WILL GET A LARGE CHUNK OF AMOUNT SAY MIN 3 LAKHS TO 15 LAKHS AS ARREARS OF PENSION AND COMMUTATION.'The above statement is not based on any facts and figures.we cannot generalise the matter without having any reliable statistical data or facts.1.Even the data shown regarding number of retired employees may have variations.2.Please clarify how the 'blesed ones' will get such a substantial amount.3.IBA/UFBU has not so far made any understanding regarding effective date for payment of pension.Considering the funds position it may not have retrospective effect. 4.More over Retirees have to provide 30% of pension fund gap along with Bank's contribution of PF an interest there on to go for 2nd option.Even to pay back PF portion most of them has to depend on commuted amount.Youngsters should get good salary ,no doubt about it.We can accept the reality and continue the fight for better pay at least in next BPS. MOU has been signed for 17.5 % wage increase,and pension fund is not meant for wage revision.Then why we blame Pf optees now?
When the pension option was introduced in the banking sector, the prevailing interest rate was between
12 to 14% and on the basis of that some unions advocated CPF option citing the interest to be earned on the CPF amount will be more than the pension to be received and further advised they are having the principal
amount intact. Considering the above the option of CPF then was correct to some section of the banking Staff.
The VRS 2000 scheme changed the outlook entirely. The Economic Times in an article at that time stated that the importance of pension option come to the fore after the VRS scheme only. Those who have opted for pension safely availed the lucrative VRS scheme and got some other employment apart from their penion.Further the rate of interest has started to move southwards.
CHV in one of the lectures said that inflation will always move up and because of the globalisation the interest rate only would go down. So the pension in the banking industry is going to be profitable to the employees and further family pension is also there to safeguard the family. He further said when u become old then only u will realise the importance of pension.How prophetic he was. Thanks to the
UFBU endevour we got another option to go for pensio. I request one and all to opt for pension because another opportunity will never come.
maharam
Referring to maharam December 16, 2009 11:09 AM:
I was just one year in bank after leaving central govt, when the computerisation & pension agreement signed on Dt: 29/10/1993.That time already ten years more retired bank employees with cpf were very much present before them and also GOI retired employees with pension; for perfect case studies.In our bank one 1/3rd PTSK opted for CPF at that time.Those who opted for pf, actually didn't have much knowledge in real economics, though they posed to be. In spite of presuming themselves smarter in this matter, but in real term, they found themselves at loss at the end.What an in-depth knowledge of a banker in real economics!
Dear Chandan,
Our pension regulation 1995 was drafted based on the central government pension and modified wherever necessary suited to the requirements. Since IBA is repeatedly raising the cost factor in each and every monetary benefit aspect achieving benefits on par with central government scheme is very difficult. All the residual issues and improvements in percentage of commutation has to be taken up only after implementing the present settlement
So only 5 years addition is possible as of now. Suppose if the government considers further manpower reduction as a first step towards consolidation they may instruct IBA to amend the pension regulation suitably so as to induce VRS without package.
As you apprehend the commutation table may shrink as the commutation amount with the present table will be very high . They may take VI th pay commission tables. Where ever it is convenient to IBA they will take that item so as to harass the bank employees.
Five day week in general insurance industry was made effective only as a cost saving measure as their profit margins are low .Banks and LIC are much more customer oriented and day to day transactions are multi fold and five day week will affect all the parties concerned.
Final query was elaborated in detail as a separate post. Pay commission will be definitely superior to bipartite because THE ATTITUDE OF THE GOVERNMENT TOWARDS THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE POSITIVE. But the attitude of IBA who is acting as a pay commission judge , is totally negative. The intention of the government in handing over the wage negotiation to IBA is the availability of banking expertise who knows the intricacies of banking and to recommend suitable scales. But the purpose is defeated by IBA. Future Bank wage revisions may be safe only in the hands of pay commission as they will hear both views,. They may take parity, prevailing economic situation , risk factors etc .They need not please anybody and they will do their duty and recommend good wages..
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
Respected Balan sir
Thank you for stating that "Since VRS Scheme was not available in many banks for PF optees, the interpretation of resignation from service has to be done in favor of the employees".
You have also stated that "UFBU should be cautioned well in advance" about this.But how to know whether UFBU has taken up this? Could somebody please take up this with UFBU?
Plaease Give Details OF New Pay Stracture for Clerical Staff.and Any one knows what SBI employees are going to get???
to Sri Achyuth,
I have been requesting again and again our friends to post their comments only when there is with relevant documentary proof wither in the past or at present.Merely guessing and coming to a conclusion will dishearten others and they will lose faith in unions and become weak.
Present requirement is courageous bold young generation of staff who must come forward to assume the responsibility of union leadership and fight further to get issues resolved further.
You may note that whatever may be the burden of pension payment in future, it will be taken care of by the corpus fund already created
and funds to be added now.Pension option is nothing but gambling.
I am not sure how many days I live after opting for pension.In my case, I may have to contribute Rs 9 lakhs of my PF contribution which I get if I donot opt for pension PLUS 30 % of the share which may be around Rs 2 to 3 lakhs.If I keep this 12 lakhs in Senior Citizen's Deposit scheme in any Post Office, I shall get Rs 9000.00 as monthly interest and my Rs 12 lakhs remain intact.
But by opting pension if I die after one or two years after opting for pension, the entire amount will go to pension corpus fund and my wife if she is alive get very nominal pension till her death and thereafter my children will not get anything.
As regards service conditions of bank employees we are required to go a long way in fighting for 5 days week,fixed working hours,honorable pay package improvement is leave encashment etc(Already demanded by UFBU)
and it is proved beyond doubt that bargaining with the managements is the best way out.However, due to multiplicity of unions having different ideologies bargaining with managements has become difficult and time consuming.Determination and patience is the only way out.
Majority of PF optees did not opt for pension in 1993 for only one reason.That there will not be pension if they participated in strikes.Had this clause was not there which was removed in 1995 none of the PF optees would have opted for PF. It is wrong to say that because of the rate of interest at 14 to 15 % p.a. they remained as PF optees. Even today investments in some mutual fund investments and equities we get more than 15 % return.
Dear Balan Sir,
Many thanks for your reply December 16, 2009 4:45 PM.
Actually upto fourth cpc in govt jobs there was no point to point fitments available in & within a scale.Even relativity was not maintained on an equal basic of two different scales.For example say, a scale 1200-2040 you were at a basic of 1700. Another person on the very next scale, say 1400-2600 also at 1700.Before pay revision both gross were more or less same, but after pay revision, a huge gap would have been found, say around 15% in basic+DA.It was not because, that other person was on higher scale. But it was due to the unscientific fitments-formula.In our bank's fitments we always find relativity between a sub-staff & clerk and also between a clerk & officer in these cases.
Even in same scale say 1400-2600, one was at basic 2000 having 13 increments and another one was at 1600 having 5 increments, but after pay revision it was found 13 increments sinked to 6 or 7 and the person got only 2 to 3% rise in toto on Basic+DA. The case of 5 increments also sinked to 1. The gap of 13-5=8 increments sinked to a gap of 4 increments.More over HRA at that time was not encouraged like fifth or sixth cpc.No ACP or MACP was introduced during those days.
All those spoiled the one's interest to do a govt job especially in different clerical caders, where promotions were slow.It was also found that someone joined just one day before the date of pay revision, drew same salary with other one who had 6-7 years service in that particular post.
On the other hand bank jobs had a stage to stage fitments and maintained proper relativity in pay revisions.Bank increments were 2 to 3 folds of govt jobs in their respective stages of basics.And all those lured someone like me & my friends to join in banking through BSRB.
In fifth cpc initially it was a notional hike 20% on old basic subject to minimum starting basic of correspondent revised scales.But later on cabinet changed it to 40% on old basic. Ofcourse 100/- + 10% I.R. factor was there.So if we don't take I.R.s into account for seniors having 15 years of service, it was not so encouraging, but that 13 increments,that I told earlier sinked to 9 to 10, instead of 6 to 7 as had been happened in earlier cpcs. But persons in the starting stage of the scale used to be benefited to an extend of 60 to 70% on old basic.In those days there was a saying in govt circle"In pay revision juniors are benefited like anything, but seniors are poor losers"
(To be continued)
(Continue from earlier post)
Previously upto fourth cpc pension was just updated like, ours happened for the persons retired on or after due date of bps, say 1st Nov 2002 but before date of bps finally signed, say 27 Feb 2005.But from fifth cpc adding of I.R. & 40% of old basic introduced like existing employees' pay revision.One can say it was not an updation of pension, but a revision of pension,almost in the line of pay revision for non retirees. Thanks to administration that they didn't accept 67% pension concept of fifth cpc beyond 33 years of service.Otherwise there would had been more differences and Com K.Anandkumar had to write more vigorously. Sixth cpc maintained, that 40% trend and recent anomaly committee is very soon, going to give an additional effect of grade pay for retirees of pre 2006. This will improve central pension further 10 to 15%.
After fifth cpc anomaly committee, during 2003 upgrade most of the scales in central govt upward notionally from 1996 and gross improved 10 to 15% depending on scales.However LDC scale was not improved. In 2004 when DA was 67% NDA govt, before general election in April 2004, implemented 50% DP concept quoting fifth cpc recommendation, which should had been implemented in 2002 when central DA was 50%, if govt was sincere and not act with an eye on vote bank politics.DP implementation improved central salary further.
Sixth cpc history,known to all.It brings very first time in central govt services, almost a bank like stage to stage fitments, apart from grade pay.Old DP amount was restored by cabinet, superseding the recommendation of sixth cpc's 1.74 factor.An improvement of 5% gross came from cabinets this political decision. Starting right from grade pay enhancement to different new improvements' are notified now & then in central jobs during last couple of months, creat situations quite hard for other jobs like bank etc to maintain a relativity at per with it.
Hope this article will helpful in the academic interest of blog members.Thanks.
I found the following news item in
Business line
Peeved over what is being seen as a disparity in the wage structure of the banking industry vis-à-vis government employees, State Bank of India (SBI) Officers’ Association (Bengal circle) wants SBI to have a separate wage structure on the lines of the Reserve Bank of India.
Stating this, Sakti Kumar Haldar, General Secretary, SBIOA (Bengal circle), said here at a press conference that the entry-level monthly salary for a clerk in the banking industry was Rs. 7,712 as compared to Rs. 12,793 for a government clerk. The gap was wider at the executive level, he said.
In addition, three lakh employees of SBI now felt deprived on account of the latest 17.5 per cent salary revision in the banking industry which Mr. Haldar said was discriminatory against SBI employees.
He explained that this was so on account of the denial of the benefit of additional cost being paid to other banks for payment of pension as a second option.
Mr. Haldar said that due to a prevalent ceiling on gratuity payments, the employees retired with a leaner purse as compared to other bank employees.
On the stand of the All India State Bank Officers Federation on these issues, he said the AISBOF along with the Staff Federation had already held initial discussions with the SBI management to resolve the issues.
So what is in store for us?
Source: Business line
Referring Maharam December 16, 2009 9:41 PM:
Sakti Kumar Haldar, General Secretary, SBIOA (Bengal circle) now-a-days becomes the spokesman of AISBOF. But why is the real man Com
G D Nadaf, General Secretary AISBOF is not delivering the subjects? SBI leaders are misguiding their members, that SBI pension scheme will be in vogue for new recruitees even after 01/04/2010.Note SBI since 01/01/2006, in its advertisements already notified for new recruitees that those recruits on & after 01/01/2006 may be entitled for define pension and non contributory provident fund, as bank's pension scheme is under review.Recent 11000 clerks to be recruited definitely will get their posting only after 01/04/2010 to tactically deprive them from SBI pension by SBI management. This type of incident happened during BSRB days in 1993, where new recruitees in SBI got their posting in Dec-1993,(In spite of final result was out in June-August by different BSRBs) in order to deprive them from computerisation-increment & SCA as cut-off date was 31/10/1993.
NPS will be implemented not only in SBI but also in RBI, NABARD, LIC,GIC all financial organisations in the year 2010.This is a policy decision of GOI, the supreme administrative authority of our country.No chairman or no governor can change it.Be sure of it.
It is informed that within 10 days there will be a meeting to finalise the pay structure. Any idea about next meeting.
meeting with IBA is scheduled on 28th for Clerks and 29th for officers.
meeting with iba will be there during the first week of Jan 2010. News available in aiboc site
Where are you All ?
No News ?
I has been not joined 16th strike as per I have told in my last comments.
Remember : We are slowly going to "BLACK HALL" due to So called Leaders. We nothing get usefully.
*******B E S T O F L U C K*******
The universal meaning of “Pension” would be, a benefit, usually money, paid regularly to retired employees or their survivors, by the employer, from the date of retirement. When it so, there cannot be a common ‘cut-off date’ for payment of the same to all the pension optees. All the pensioners are legally entitled for pension from their respective dates of retirements. Probably, the employer may be right, in demanding refund of their PF contribution together with interest as on the date of retirement as also the future interest @ the existent PF rates from time to time till the date of its repayment. But, payment of pension cannot be postponed to a future date than the date of retirement. This is very much logical and reasonable and very much as per law and natural justice. I humbly request the parties concerned to bear the above fact in mind, before taking a decision and signing the joint note in this regard. Thanking you in advance.
Mr.Ramanuamgovind,
What you have stated is correct.As we are aware the Pension scheme was introduced in banks in the year 1995.
We need not go in deep now,to history, to find out the back ground and reasons which forced leadership of union at least to take up the issue of Pension to PF optees after a prolonged period. An understanding has also been reached now in this regard.Indeed a good thing.More than 3.32 lakhs families may be waiting to know the final outcome.
Pension should be paid from the date of retirement. There is no doubt about it.
It is the legitimate right of the employee. Any thing contra is against natural justice.
Unfortunately our union leaders mixed up the 2nd option of pension issue with wage revision, and thereby gave an upper hand to IBA to dictate terms in the name of wage revision under 9th BPS.
Here comes the following questions.
What is the relevance of cut of date?
Again,what is the logic behind the Pension fund sharing formula @ 70:30 by Bank/employee,which has no legal background.
Let us hope that , the leadership of union will take earnest efforts to see that all retirees including those who resigned from bank within the eligibility criteria get chance for option of pension without payment of 30% share.
Dear friends i had collectd the fillowing data from RBI website which interesting to analyse
ALL PUBLIC SECTOR BANKS WAGE BILL AND NET PROFIT amount in crores
year Wages Net profit
1998-99 14839 3253
99-2000 16394 5116
2000-01 20929 4316
2001-02 19045 8301
2002-03 20446 12295
2003-04 22581 16546
2004-05 28114 18975
2005-06 27378 16538
2006-07 27802 20152
2007-08 28660 26592
2008-09 34250 34394
Balan sir,
Can we expect 40% hike at least in 2012.
Dear friends i had collectd the fillowing data from RBI website which interesting to analyse
ALL PUBLIC SECTOR BANKS WAGE BILL AND NET PROFIT amount in crores
year Wages Net profit
1998-99 14839 3253
99-2000 16394 5116
2000-01 20929 4316
2001-02 19045 8301
2002-03 20446 12295
2003-04 22581 16546
2004-05 28114 18975
2005-06 27378 16538
2006-07 27802 20152
2007-08 28660 26592
2008-09 34250 34394
Balan sir,
Can we expect 40% hike at least in 2012.
December 19, 2009 10:04 PM
AN APPEAL TO THE LEADERS WHILE DRAFTING THE PENSION NOTE
My friend joined a PSU bank in 1988 as a Scale1 Technical Officer at age 23. He was a PF optee and he quit the Bank in 2008 after 20yrs and 7months service with the idea of starting his own unit.
Since he was a PF optee and there was no VRS scheme in the bank, his quitting was accepted as resignation by the bank.
Within 5 months of quitting the bank, he met with an unfortunate accident and expired at age 43. His wife and 9 year old son received serious injuries. His wife is not in a position to take up regular employment or set up the unit which her husband had planned as she is now confined to a wheel chair due to a hip injury.
My appeal is this – had her husband been a pension optee originally , his quitting would have been treated as VRS and she would be now receiving a monthly pension. The amount recd as Bank Contribution to PF is not much and she is not able to focus on investing properly to receive a regular monthly income. SO I APPEAL TO ALL THE LEADERS TO MAKE EARNEST EFFORTS TO SEE THAT THOSE WHO RESIGNED WITHIN THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA ALSO GET ANOTHER OPTION FOR PENSION
Hi! All Friends
If anybudy has proposed Clerical Staff wage chart then please post here.I have got officers chart but can't find for clerical.
Dear aaaa,
Hope the picture will be complete, if the under mentioned details are also added. May be interesting to know.
Out of consolidated net profit of Rs.34319.cr. earned for the last FY a sum of Rs 21565 cr. Comes from 19 nationalised banks and Rs.9121cr.from SBI alone. Rs.2774cr.was contributed by 6 associates of SBI.and Rs.859 cr. Comes from IDBI bank. Again there are nationalized bank with Rs 185 cr NP (UBI)and other one with highest of Rs.3091 cr. NP.(PNB)The wage load offer is directly linked to establishment expenditure.
The figures given are excluding the SBI group. The RBI gives separate figures for PSB and SBI group.
Here are the figures for SBI group for two years
2007 - 08 Wages 10,294 NP 9006 and
2008 - 09 Wages 12,331 NP 11896
I am not sure whether the sbi figures are included in the psb figures but RBI has got separate pages for psb and sbi
Net Profit of Rs.34,319cr.shown comprises,of NP of Nationalised Banks,SBI,Associates of SBI and IDBI bank.
dear balan,
i took VRS on 15.12.2000 from BOI. i was scale III officer at the top of the scale with BP
of 15,760 +PQA 340/- and FPA 380/- (total Rs.16,480/-)all eligible for PF cpntribution. PF of Rs.1648/- was being deducted. my date of birth is 20.12.1943. I am PF optee at the moment.
please let me know the quotiont which will be applicable in my case.? i.e. 11.10 which is for 57years of age as i was completing 57 years on 20.12.2000
OR will it be the coming birthdate age after effective date ofter settlement ? for 67 years age the quotient is 7.85 as per pension rules.
as the settlement is not going to be of retrospective effect, UBFU atleast should insist on considering calculation of commutation factor at the time of actual relieving of officers under VRS, I hope they may have taken this point in their notes for negotiation.
please offer your comments/views in the matter.
PATWEKAR
From the profit figures as submitted by aaaaa I understand that Rs 4000 crores net increase in profits is due to the salaries and wages expenditure saved post vrs 2000 scheme.so by saving 4000 crores per annum due to the vrs optees the insiders in the bank are abusing the vrs optees by calling them robbers.shame
Group of resigned officers from psu banks
To address the specific issues of resigned bank employees, a group is formed on the web, which will serve as a forum for sharing and discussing their specific issues. The group is formed under google groups , named as bankresignee. Link for the group is given below
http://groups.google.co.in/group/bankresignee
I have come across one very interesting write up for new pension optees in All banking solutions .com by one mr.R P Agarwal.Very helpful clarifies and the much debated issue i.e. whether the date of pension is prospective or retrospective.I understand from the write up that is retrospective. How it has not yet come in this columns,yet, I wonder. I request the members here to go thru the news and confirm/clarify.
Referring gopal December 24, 2009 9:36 PM:
Pension for retired pf optees will be calculated retrospective but notionally.No arrear amount will be paid for this period. For technical reason commutation will be permitted from the date of actual pension paid.The age for commutation will be reckoned as on date of pension actual paid i.e. year 2010. Those retired pf optees, who already crossed 72/73 age, should take a very careful decision, whether to opt for it(pension) or not comparing/studing his or her present social & financial condition.
Next round of Wage Revision Talks between IBA and UFBU will be held on 28th December 2009 and 29th December 2009 as per one web site.
AS PER AIBOC CIRCULAR
After detailed deliberations, it was decided that the next round of discussions should be held in the first week of January 2010 on a date mutually convenient to all concerned. The Small Committee which will be formed for looking after the working in connection with the Officers in the Banking Industry, will consist of 5 members including 2 from the Confederation and one each from the other Officers Organizations. They will meet shortly and workout the modalities for the purpose of finalizing their proposals for the consideration of the Negotiating Team. The Negotiating Committee of the Confederation will meet shortly and formulate their views in order to take up the same with the other Officers’ Organizations as well as IBA for finalisation of our proposal for the consideration of IBA. The Confederation being the majority organization for the Officers’ Organizations – the Co-ordination of AIBOC, AIBOA, INBOC and NOBO formed for the purpose of informal discussions on all the issues connected with the Officers’ community in the banking industry, will meet separately for holding discussions on the various issues well before a formal meeting with IBA is convened
WHETHER THE NEXT ROUND OF TALKS ARE TO BE HELD TODAY AND TOMARROW OR IN THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY. WHICH ONE IS CORRECT?
Anything new on Wage Revision?plz tell me about new pay structure for clerks?
Balan Sir Plz publish new pay structure for clerks?and any update you have about talks
The discussions have remained inconclusive since on some of the issues, the IBA team wanted to discuss the matter with the higher authorities before reacting to the unions.
It was decided to continue the discussions on the next round of talks for which dates will be fixed up shortly.
Details of talks held on 28th December between ufbu and iba is available in aibea site.
Further to the discussions held between the IBA and the Unions on 9 & 10th December, 2009 another round of bipartite discussions took place today at Mumbai between IBA and AIBEA / NCBE / BEFI / INBEF / NOBW. IBA was represented by their Core Committee headed by Mr. Jagdish Pai (ED, Canara Bank). All the 5 workmen unions were represented in the talks.
In today’s meeting, discussions continued on construction of pay scale, revision of special pay, allocation of cost of various items, cost of retirement benefits etc. From the unions’ side, we have emphasized that maximum possible cost to be allocated for construction of revised basic pay. Various suggestions and proposals were discussed in the meeting. However, the discussions have remained inconclusive since on some of the issues, the IBA team wanted to discuss the matter with the higher authorities before reacting to the unions.
It was decided to continue the discussions on the next round of talks for which dates will be fixed up shortly.
SAMBO SHIVA SAMBO.... HOW MANY MORE MEETINGS WILL BE REQUIRED TO GIVE PEANUTS!! iT IS LIKE THE PANCHATHANTRA STORY WHERE A MONKEY TAKES THE RESPONSIBILITY OF DIVIDING AN 'AAPPAM' TO TWO CATS! aT THE END NONE OF THE REAL BENEFICIARY EVER GET ANYTHING! sambo shiva sambo... AMBO SETTLMENT AMBO...
dear,
we have to pay the price for our ignorance in choosing our leaders.
dear,
we have to pay the price for our ignorance in choosing our leaders.
Today at Mumbai, the second round of the Small Committee meet was held at IBA office, World Trade Centre, Mumbai.
The Small Committee of IBA was represented by Shri Jagdish Pai, Executive Director, Canara Bank, Shri B.B.Das, Shri Rajeev Rishi, Shri R.C.Srivastava, Shri Suresh Chandra, Shri K.Unnikrishnan and Shri M.Venugopalan, AIBOA, INBOC and NOBO were represented by Shri S.Nagarajan, Shri K.K.Nair and Shri S.K.Rathod respectively.
Responding to the proposal submitted by our Four Officers’ Organizations on 10th December 2009, IBA provided a salary chart constructed on 2836 Index point merger with average 20% loading along with notes on outsourcing and pension specifying that 13% of the Basic pay of SBI officers to be kept separately undistributed which SBI will decide how to deal with the same.
In response, we impressed upon IBA the need to have higher start of pay for officers considering the large scale dissatisfaction caused in the last wage revision, tax on perquisites etc. We also stated that appropriation from the Industry level wage load to SBI on pension costing, leave encashment on retirement loaded exclusively, construction of pay scales with 11% loading with merger start at Scale I are unacceptable to the Organizations. With regard to outsourcing, we stated that we shall revert to them after discussions amongst us.
While taking note of our view points, the IBA representatives assured to revisit the areas of concern and respond to us.
Our Organizations shall strive hard to set right anomalies of the last wage revision and also ensure a fair and reasonable wage increase in this Bipartite settlement. - AIBOA post.
- FOR OFFICERS ALSO STILL THE CURTAIN IS NOT RAISING! THIS TIME AROUND OUR LEADERS HAVE MASTERED THE ART OF KEEPING THE RANK AND FILE IN UTTER DARKNESS BY USING UNCLEAR STATEMENTS.
To New generation employees:-
A good sign that young generation officers are expressing their resentment about unions openly. But in my opinion you must be very careful while expressing your views by which you should not suffer at a later date. Having 3 decades of service and worked throughout India, I have come to the following conclusions.
01.
In majority of banks 'transfer policy'is an eye wash and it is used as a weapon to shunt honest straight forward officers to far off places in the name of 'Transfer Policy' and retaining
'Chelas' 'chamchas' and followers at their place of choice even after promotions.This will be done with the connivance of unions in majority of cases.
02.
Transfer orders are normally issued to such officers at a crucial time where the officer will not be able to leave the banking industry due to age factor and when he is not in a position either to leave his family at his place of choice nor he can take his family to his place of posting due to ill health of parents or education of his children
03.
Taking this inevitable situation as an advantage officers are not allowed to settle at one place and always are required to be at the mercy of the unions or of Managements.You can protest but at your own risk.
04.
If young generation officers are able to overcome this problem and dare enough not to bow their heads to unions/managements they can do wonders in the days to come.
Dear SHANKAR Sir,
You are very right on the subject. We poor members are nothing but jokers between the Management and Union. If Union is evil, then Management is more evil. So an ordinary member has no way out, but has to choose a lesser evil i.e Union. Very pathetic. Thanks.
slepoDEAR MR.BALAN, I AM AN EXSERVICEMAN HAVING SERVED 15 YEARS IN DEFENCE AND RECEIVING DEFENCE PENSION. I SERVED BANK FOR 14 YEARS AND OPTED FOR PF, SINCE AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO DA FOR SECOND PENSION. I TOOK VRS IN 2001. PLS LET ME KNOW WHETHER I AM ELIGIBLE FOR SECOND PENSION OPTION. THANK YOU.
chandan pls come on be a leader dont be a chooser. who stops you to become the leader even prime minister. we are a democracy.
m m l gupta
Referring mml gupta 5, 2010 9:21 PM:
"All roads lead to Rome"
On going through the note on pension based on MOU it is observed that those employees who had already in the pension option will have to bear lesser burdon to make good the negative balance in the pension fund, and the employees who are going to opt for pension this time will have to contribute higher amount to pension fund for opting pension late.
The employees who have already opted for pension will have to contribute 3 %
The employees who are going to opt pension this time will have to contribute 30 %
why this disparity or this is penalty for opting pension late.?
In this this connection the following reality is to be accepted nad the burdon sharing is to same for all categories of employees..
In case of employees who have already opted for pension their Bank;s contribution to PF is transferred to pension fund and is earning interest at the same rate which is given to PF optees.
In case of employees who are now going to opt for pension their portion of Bank's contribution to pf is now going to be transferred to pension fund along with interest right from the beginning.
Only difference in these two categories of employees is the date of tansfer of banks;s contribution to pension fund.
Then why employees now opting for pension should bear 30 % burdon.
It is also now open secret that during 7th and 8th BP settlements a large portion of funds has been transferred to pension fund in disguised manner there by depriving the PF optees of getting higher pay increase.The pension fund was contributed at the cost
of PF optees and they have to contain with meagre wage hike.
Now everybody is speaking as if all the PF optees are going to opt for pension(as if pension option is compulsory).If anybody
who has no nominee for family pension does not opt for pension how much rise he will get ?What will be the percentage rise
is it 17.5 % of 25 to 30 %.?.For this reason only SBI has not signed MOU.
If you have any clarifications/answers to these issues,kindly discuss.
Further to the last round of talks held on 28.12.2009, another round of Bipartite talks took place today (05.01.2010) in Mumbai between IBA and 5 Workmen Unions viz. AIBEA / NCBE / BEFI / INBEF / NOBW. IBA team was led by Mr. Jagdish Pai (ED, Canara Bank) and from our side all unions were represented.
In today’s discussions we continued the talks and worked on tentative proposals with higher loading than what was discussed in the last meeting. Attempts are being made to achieve maximum of basic pay as is possible and feasible, having regard to its consequent impact on retirement benefits viz. PF, Gratuity and Pension. As regards improvements in duties of special assistant, head cashiers and CTO with passing power / single window operator, we proposed that we can discuss the issue subject to commensurate increase in the allowance, to which IBA had an open mind. Rationalisation of special pay, extending single window operator allowance to all clerical staff, possibility of merging this special pay with basic pay etc were discussed but not yet finalised. We also discussed the proposal for clubbing HRA & CCA and reducing the HRA area / category from 4 to 3 to extend some more HRA in places with lesser population. It has been decided that after mutually working out the above proposals, further items will be taken up. It was also decided that simultaneously we shall also take up the process of drafting the settlement on wage revision / pension option.
Next round of meeting will be fixed up shortly to take the discussions forward and to expedite the settlement.
yes mr.chandan all roads will lead to rome if you have fire to reach rome.simple and sensitive people like you made them great leaders.
m m l gupta
as mr aiyar has rightly pointed out the right to choose the option shall raise many ifs to exercise the option i.e health and family circumstances at the time of exercising the option.The retitred employees shall calculate the survival age gap vs the amt they shall pay for. The iba has made the whole pension issue as a fund management stretegy rather than social security of the erstwhile employees of the bank who were kept away from the option as due to the break in service clause in the option and high interest rates prevailing at the time of option. later on they changed the rules and now they are playing with the old peoples expectations to lead a socially secured life.similarly special vrs was brought after transfering the employees indicreminately to far off places and rumouring banks mergers to create an impression that the transferees wont be able to support and meet their family and dependents and then the iba provided an exit rout to these employees through vrs scheme. It is a pity that nobody has taken a lesson from the previous designs of iba.May I ask a simple question ,why legislatures are taking prnsion without even attending the sessions ? simple might is right.
M M L Gupta
Irrespective of the fact that you are still an employee or retired all should opt for pension. According to me retirees need not pay anything for pension fund. The commuted amount will take care of the amount whatever they have to pay.They will be getting something from the commuted value after meeting the pension fund requirement and in addition to that they will be getting regular pension till the end of their life. Family pension will be disbursed after the death of the pensioner.
Mr. Parameswaran - You say that commutation amount will take care of the amount payable by the retirees and hence no further amount need be paid. What about the refund of bank's PF contributions? It is also inferred from the MOU that no arrears of pension will be paid. Pension is likely to be paid only from the date of agreement. If that be the case, the retirees have to shell out huge amount by way of refund together with pension gap. Please clarify.
Mr. Parameswaran - You say that commutation amount will take care of the amount payable by the retirees and hence no further amount need be paid. What about the refund of bank's PF contributions? It is also inferred from the MOU that no arrears of pension will be paid. Pension is likely to be paid only from the date of agreement. If that be the case, the retirees have to shell out huge amount by way of refund together with pension gap. Please clarify.tri
Ref. Mr.Arun. Post dt.5th Jan’10.
The observation is true. With regard to sharing formula of Pension Fund Gap,the same has no logic or statutory background.Any way an understanding has been reached between IBA and UFBU in this regard.As of now it stands for.
Reducing the PF balance,out of total liability arrived by actuaries as on 31.3.2008,comes to Rs.6001.80cr and Rs.3116.50cr respectively for existing PF optees
and retirees 30% of above is to be shared by existing 272000 employees who opted for PF and by 60000 retirees. MOU says so.While analysing the background of Pension Fund Gap/17.5% wage hike etc,a lot of questions will comes to the mind of bankmen/retirees.
1.Wage hike at present level is reasonable or comparable?
2.Why leaders of unions mixed up the 2nd option on pension with wage revision?.
3.Why the formula of sharing pension fund gap?
4.Can banks achieve parity in pay scales in near future?
5.Though IBA agreed on demands,earlier month itself why UFBU delayed the process till 27th Nov.09.
There are certain undisputed facts conveniently ignored by IBA/Govt.of India which are very much relavant and fully known to them.
-pension is the right of the employee and not a bounty,and statutary in nature.
-Pension has to be paid immediately after retirement.
-Pension payment is not made by the management, but from Pension Fund.As you rightly pointed out what the management was doing all these years-incluing 8th BPS- with the contributions collected from all employees, towards building up of pension fund which is best known to them.
-Unlike Govts. where salary/pension payments are made from their budgetary allocation,Banks are making the salary payment from profits earned by them.
-.As we know,the Net Profit of all PSBs, for last FY comes to Rs.34,000crores.
-We have to look the formula of sharing under this backdrop. There is no justification for the same , whether it is 30% or less.
Leaders have agreed on this point.All questions will remain unanswered .
All of us are fully aware,that no miracles will occur in next part of discussion of IBA/UFBU or in final settlement of wage revision,since the same will be in tune with MOU dt.27th Nov.09. only.
However if any little concern is there towards the talented work force as well as retirees of the banks ,the leaders of UFBU/officials at IBA should try to do the maximum possible things within the frame work, such as
– Improving the Scale of pay from the starting itself with maximum load,to the extend possible and corresponding increase in all scales. Needless to mention here that any increase in BP helps to gain superannuation benefits as well.
-Granting pension option to all those who are having eligible period of service including those who resigned.
-Avoid sharing of 30% pension fund gap,there by depriving major portion of arrears for existing employees as well as own savings of retired . Any thing positive will emerge?
What is the minimum pensionable service for pension? Is it 10 years or 15 years or 20 years for vrs optees?
Referring DEFENCE PBOR PAY AND PENSION January 6, 2010 10:29 PM:
"For VRS in Public Sector Banks, those who are party to 1993/95 Industrial level Pension settlement, as on date minimum pensionable service period is 20 years, even for Special VRS Scheme 2001."
"In GOI as per sixth cpc w.e.f Dt:01/01/2006 this minimum is 10 years for VRS and proportionate to full pension drawn on 20 years"
Thanks.
The commutation amount will take care of the amount to be refunded towards PF with interest and pension gap. So the retirees need not pay anything.
I would like to post a live example which I would like Mr.Parameswaran to clarify as how I need not refund any amount as a retiree as a scale III from a nationalised bank after serving 37 years and superannuated.
I retired in the year 2005 June. I received Rs.740000/- as Bank's contribution with interest as PF.
I was drawing Rs.24890/- as basic including FPA and CAIIB increments i.e.at maximum of scale III.
Kindly let me know the calculation showing that I need not refund anything to the bank after commutation towards my PF plus interest and also 30% which I have to pay to fill the pension gap.
Dear parameswaran
refer your comments of 7.1.2010.
i give below my factual details which please go through and then say yourself that your comments are TOTALLY WRONG if you are satisfied.
i am aware that as per pension rules, the commutation factor to be considered while effecting the commutation will be the age on the next birthday and appropriate factor is to be multiolied by half ov the basic pay including other allowances eligible for calculating pf multiplied by 12.
here, if we take my case, i had taken VRS and was relieved from the bank on 15.12.2000. my basic pay was Rs.15760+PQA 340+FPA340=Rs16480/- which was eligible for 10% pf contribution. my date of birth is 20.12.1943. my age on next birthday would have been 57 years completed for which commu. quotient is 11.10. I would have recieved commutation payment of total rs. 365855 if i had opted for pension in the first go (2476.66X11.10X12=365855)
however, since i was pf optee and will now be exercing my option for pension, bank will be computing commu. value of my pension based on the the quotient of 67 years of age which i will be completing on 20.12.2010 for wsich quotient will be 7.85. that means my commutation amount will be Rs.258673/- (2746.66X7.85X12=258673) which is less by Rs.107182/- than 2000 year when i took vrs.
bank will be paying me less comutation value of rs.107182 in 2010. moreover, i had lost my pension benefit of say rs.10000/- pm on an average basis for 108 months of rs. 10.80 lacs say Rs. 10/- lacs for all these 9 years. my restoration of commuted portion will get shifted to year 2025 if i am alive then whereas original pension optees will be eligible for reinstatement of commuted portion on 15.12.2015 itself.
in addition , i will be required to shell out rs.1.55/- lacs as pension fund load factor contribution which original optees will not be required to pay out which i suppose. please correct me if i am wrong.
iba will be saying that they are asking ONLY for refund of banks pf contribution together with interest paid thereon and are not insisting further interest from new pension optees. but they are side tracking the monetory loss may be of notional nature as on today for not exercing pension option initially by pf o[tees. but facts are facts.
atleast to reduce this injustice, UBFU should insist that commutation factor as of date of vrs be considered as a special case when we are accepting pension with prospective date. this will reduce the burden of new pension optees.
i shall be obliged if you would kindly confirm my interpretations and send me your valuable comments/opnion in the matter.
regards.
knpatwekar@yahoo.com
I fully agree with the comments of Shri Pradeep and Shri Ashish. According to the MOU, the comments expressed by them are real ones. This agreement is really an injustice to the retirees who are PF optees. The pension is going to be prospective and hence no arrears will be paid. On the other hand the commutation amount will be less now considering the age and full pension will be paid after 15 years from the date of commutation. Those who are above 65 have to think more and opt for pension.
COMMENT POSTED IN THIS HEADLINES, REPRODUCED IN THE ACADEMIC INTEREST OF BLOG MEMBERS:
"chandan said...
Referring gopal December 24, 2009 9:36 PM:
Pension for retired pf optees will be calculated retrospective but notionally.No arrear amount will be paid for this period. For technical reason commutation will be permitted from the date of actual pension paid.The age for commutation will be reckoned as on date of pension actual paid i.e. year 2010. Those retired pf optees, who already crossed 72/73 age, should take a very careful decision, whether to opt for it(pension) or not comparing/studing his or her present social & financial condition.
December 25, 2009 2:14 PM"
DEAR CHANDAN SIR, THANKS FOR YOUR EARLY REPLY. I AM STILL NOT CLEAR WHETHER I AM ELIGIBLE TO GET PENSION. PLS GO THRO THE FOLLOWING AND PLS CLARIFY:
I AM AN EXSERVICEMAN HAVING SERVED 15 YEARS IN DEFENCE AND RECEIVING DEFENCE PENSION. I SERVED BANK FOR 14 YEARS AND OPTED FOR PF, SINCE AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO DA FOR SECOND PENSION. I TOOK VRS IN 2001. PLS LET ME KNOW WHETHER I AM ELIGIBLE FOR SECOND PENSION OPTION. THANK YOU, AGAIN.
Referring DEFENCE PBOR PAY AND PENSION January 7, 2010 11:00 PM:
"Chances are quite remote as you had completed only 14 years of service in bank at the time of your VRS.From your comment it appears that your retirement was most possibly on Special VRS Scheme of 2001 and it was neither an invalid retirement nor a superannuation one, where provision is available to draw pension with a minimum service of 10 years in bank, for pension optees.
However, so far my knowledge is concerned, as per 1993/95 industrial level pension settlement there is an option for defence personnel either to draw one combined pension from bank in lieu of forgoing defence pension and adding period of defence service with the period of service in bank for the sole purpose of calculating qualifying pensionable service in toto or to draw both pensions separately.
You can examine the subject in that line, whether it will be beneficial to you or not in overall monetary term, after returning PF with intt & gap amount.However,in your case, you can't draw both the pensions separately."
Thanks.
Mr. Chandran said
Pension for retired pf optees will be calculated retrospective but notionally.No arrear amount will be paid for this period.
When there is no payment of arrears why the pension is calculated retrospective even notionally. Will you please elucidate.
Dear Ashish
You have not mentioned the PF amount recd by you. I hope our union leaders will definitely take care of the retirees in such a way that they need not pay anything to get pension. Let us wait and see. Of course the commuted portion will be mostly equivalent to the PF with interest and pension fund gap.
Referring Dorai Krishnamurthy January 8, 2010 3:46 PM:
Dear Sir,
'Retrospective notionally' and 'Prospective' are two different term used in a service condition.When & where, which term is beneficial depends on the different situation of service condition.However considering different rates of Dearness Relief for Pensioners, those who retired from bank, the term 'Retrospective notionally' is inferior to the term 'Prospective'.
Dearness Relief for bank Pensioners those who retired during the following periods are paid in different rates with different basics.
I Workmen 01/01/86 to 31/10/92
Officer 01/01/86 to 30/06/93
II Workmen 01/11/92 to 31/03/98
Officer 01/07/93 to 31/03/98
III Workmen 01/04/98 to 31/10/02
Officer 01/04/98 to 31/10/02
Differential
Rate: 01/11/02 to 30/04/05
IV Workmen
& Officer: 01/05/05 onwards
As on date there is no updation on Dearness Relief for bank Pensioners is available in service condition.To maintain that status quo 'Retrospective notionally' will be applied here.
"None payment of the arrear amount for past period" is a different issue.For that, retirees may have to knock the door of Supreme Court in future, like Special VRS pensioners did to get back their five years notional weightage in pensionable service period.
More over the commutation table is this time, likely to be shrunk to the new/revised table of sixth cpc for the existing employees along with pf optees who are waiting for a joining in pension fund.
So all are cautious to have their math very correctly, prior to take a final decision in the subject of joining or not-joining in pension fund.
Thanks.
Dear parameswaran,
I had received Rs.4.50 Lacs as banks contibution as provident fund in dec 2000.
you are still sticking to your earlier statement again repeated as "Of course the commuted portion will be mostly equivalent to the PF with interest and pension fund gap." which is AGAIN I REPEAT IS INCORRECT.
NOW i have given all figures. check up your theory in light of above.
knpatwekar@yahoo.com
Dear Ashish
Yes. I agree. I was under the impression that PF contribution at the most during those days was well within 2 to 2.5 lacs. Only after VII th bipartite basic pay increased and PF also increased. You may be correct.
IT IS LEARNT THAT NEXT ROUND OF TALKS WITH IBA HAS BEEN FIXED FOR 22nd JAN FOR WORKMEN & 23rd FOR OFFICERS. UFBU WILL BE MEETING AT 5.30 PM ON 22nd.
I would like to share with you all one observation in the matter of taking decision by new candidates to opt for pension or not.Since the method is not clear and the pension payment would be mostly said to be prospective and the senior members are in a dilema whether to opt for pension or not,i only say how much we may be required to shell down to get pension now onwards apart from bank's contribution of pf ,30% load +some interest.Maximum it may be 1 to 1.5 lac.exclusive of commutation.FINALLY AFTER ALL ADJUSTMENTS , WE MAY BE REQUIRED TO PAY BELOW 1.5 LAC to get pension fecility.How much pension we may be getting in future,definitely between 10 to 12000/-Finally it filters down to we pay 1 or 1.5lac and we get a pension of 10 to 12000/-Here it is presumed that Bank's share of pf etc are met with commutation amount and if neccesary extra from our own resourses.
Dear Mr.Gopal,
While giving any advice to people who have long tenure of service,it is better to be more careful,rather than misleading without any authenticated data or details. Please refer comments made by Mr.Ashish on 7th Jan.Live example has given. Still you are under the impression that refund of Bank’s portion of PF amount and interest is meager amount,you are wrong.Take for example a person who retired in 2000 ,With PF amount of Rs.4.50 lakhs who has to repay interest for 10years.Though interest rate is not spelt out,we may calculate minimum 6%pa. which will work out to Rs.2,70,000.In addition 30% of pension fund gap will come toRs.135000. Commutation factor is very less for persons above age of 61.
Even if Commutation amout comes to Rs.3 lakhs,that may not be sufficient to pay interest and fund gap,forget about your Rs.1.50 lakhs.More over decision on pension option has to be taken by individually analyzing specific cases applicable to each one.
REFERING MR.CHANDAN, I THANK YOU FOR YOUR INDEPTH KNOWLEDGE AND PROMPT REPLY. ANYWAY LET US WAIT FOR THE CLEAR OUTCOME OF CURRENT SETTLEMENT. THANK YOU, ONCEE AGAIN
With reference to my previous comments
As I have already informed it.s only a suggesstion,an idea but not at all an advice for the senior members regarding pension option ,now. Iam an vrs optee officer, my last basic 15680 and Bank's pf contribution348400.As per my calculation if I opt for pension now , I may have to shell down some 1 to 1.5 lac after all adjustments incl commutation.It need not be same to all officers and senior members we study all pros and cons ,do all excercise,then only take a decision,Previosly also, Why we did.nt opt for pension is, we did'nt forsee the interest rest fall ,there by our calculations failed. Even now ,since we can not forsee what happens tommorrow, it is individuals choice to opt or not to opt.Only concern is , if any member for the reason that he has to shell down between 1 to 1.5 lac to get pension , thinks otherwise,this my sugession is an input to help him to take a decision.
I think, both non-prospective payment of pension and collection of interest on the management contribution of PF till its refund at the time of second option may not be correct as opined by some of the members here. The wordings of MOU already signed in this rtegard is “ Retirees will be required to return the bank’s contribution to the provident fund with interest RECEIVED BY THEM AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT”. Here, it means only the quantum of the bank’s PF, which includes interest credited up-to the date of receipt received at the time of retirement and never speaks about return of interest for this quantum ,for the period from the date of its earlier settlement till the date of its return now at the time of second option . That may the reason as to why the said Rate of interest has not been specified in the MOU. Hence, if they really intend collecting interest for this period, they may have to pay pension arrears also for this period and thus any one of the two can only be implemented, that is no interest for this period and no arrears of pension. This is my understanding and I may be corrected, if I am wrong.
I fully agree with what Mr.RamanujamGovind has written. But what I personally feel is that even if the new pension optees pay 6% simple interest on the Banks contribution plus interest received at the time of retirement they will have benefit only because till date they would have definitely enjoyed interest on the PF amount received @ more than 6% per annum and that too compound interest.
In addition to the above they will be getting pension arrears from the date of retirement and I feel commutation calculated based on their age at the time of retirement which would be definetely much more than what they will be getting if the commutation is calculated for their age as on the present date of settlement.
I therefore personally feel that what has been stated above will be more beneficial to pensioners than pension and commutation from a prospective date.
I am sure our leaders will take note of the above and act accordingly.I would also appreciate the opinion/suggestion of others in the blog.
Comments on the points raised by Mr. Pradeep:
Please note that commutation will be calculated as on the date of agreement and not on the date of retirement. Because of this, commutation amount will be much much less.
No arrears of pension will be paid since the pension is payable to the new optees only from the date of agreement.
Moreover the members have to contribute for the pension fund gap.
What you have stated is definitely beneficial but the facts are otherwise since, according to the MOU, the leaders have not fought and achieved on the points raised by you.
January 11, 2010 3:23 PM
i am following up the comments of all participants on the issue of pension option and calculation of commutation of pension since beginning.
i have also given live example in my case giving all basic information in my comments dated 8.12.2009,07.1.2010 and 9.1.2010. eventhough, i will be required to shell out banks provident fund portion ofRs.4.50Lacs recd. plus pension load factor of say Rs.1.50Lacs i.e. total Rs.6/- lacs from which commutation amount of rs.2.60 lacs receivable based on age factor of 67 years will be se-off by book entry, my net payment ogligation, to receive pension ,will be rs.Rs.4.40 lacs to be eligible to receive pension every month.
now if you carryout mathematical calculation and present pension being paid to existing pensioners having same basic pension pay, I will be entittiled to a minimum monthly pension of about Rs.13,000/-p.m. now, show me any investment avenue under the sun which will give you monthly yield of 33.91% with additional benefit of cost/inflation/deaness allowance revision. this percentage is calculated as under:-
100/460000 X 13000 X 12 months.
following points may also be noted and reasons therefor:
1. ONLY BANK PROVIDENT AMOUNT ON DATE OF RETIREMENT RECIEVED WILL BE REQUIRED TO BE PAID. NO FURTHER INTERESR !!! IF INTEREST IS DEMANDED THEN BANKS WILL HAVE TO PAY PENSION ARREARS FROM DATE OF RETIREMENT. TO AVOID THIS ONLY, NO INTEREST ON PF WILL BE DEMANDED.
2. SO NO PENSION ARREARS. ONLY FUTURE PENSION FROM DATE OF SIGNING OF MOU OR DATE OF SIGNING OG AGREEMENT WILL BE EFFECTIVE DATE OF RECEIVING PENSION AMOUNT.
3.COMMUTATION AMOUNT WILL BE CALCULATED ON THE AGE FACTOR OF YOUR NEXT BIRTHDAY AND NOT AGE AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT. I HAD IN MY COMMENTS DATED 7.1.2010 HAS REQUESTED UBFU TO ATLEAST INSIST ON IBA TO ALLOW COMMUTATION FACTOR BASED ON AGE AT THE TIME OF DATE OF RETIREMENT AS A SPECIAL CASE. HOW FAR THIS WILL BE FOLLOWED UP OR FRUITIFIED DEPENDS ON OUR LUCK !!
4.ONE CETAIN THING IS YOUR AMOUNT WHICH YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO SHELL OUT WILL BE RECOVERED BY YOU WITHIN A PERIOD OF 30 TO 36 MONTHS AND NOT MORE THAN THAT. YOU MAY CALCULATE YOUR OUTGO BASED ON ABOVE FORMULA.
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO HAVE THEIR CALCULATION CALCULATED, THEY MAY SEND ME ON MY FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS THEIR DATE OF BIRTH,DATE OF RETIREMENT, LAST BASIC PAY AND SPECIAL ALLOWANCES RECEIVED AND FULL MONTHS PF AMOUNT DEDUCTED PRIOR TO DATE OF RETIREMENT TO GIVE THEIR INDIVIDUAL FIGURES OF COMMUTATION AMOUNT. PLEASE ALSO GIVE ONLY BANKS PROVIDENT FUND AMOUNT RECEIVED. replies will be sent on their email address.
knpatwekar@yahoo.com
PENSION FOR RETIREE PF OPTEES:
1) Effective on or after Dt:27/11/2009.
2)No pension arrear for past period of retirement.
3)No intt on PF to be collected from retirees.Only receivable PF amount of management contribution along with intt on that, at the time of retirement to be refunded.
4)So called Gap amount of pension fund is to be paid by the retirees.
5)Effects are retrospective notionally.
6)Commutation factor as per actual age/next birth day as on 2010 based on revised commutation table of sixth cpc, that is 20% less than previous one.
Thanks.
dear chandan,
what is the source of your 20% reduction in commutation factor when correspondlingly basic pay of retitrd peoples is not going to be fixed at higher basic pay for settlements taken lace after 2000 ?
can you throw some light ?
knpatwekar
in continuation to my earlier mail, i give below the link which shows commutation value factor which is in practice in case of govt. pensioners for their information :-
http://pensionersportal.gov.in/p296-table.asp
this table is just the relica of our commutation table.
now please offer your comments !!
knpatwekar
mr kashinath
this is with reference to the link to commutation table.please refer sixth cpc report(xii) retirement benefits for civilian employees where in the new commutation chart is given.i am a pf vrs opteeof bank.please clarify which chart is applicable to us
Ref:AIBOC Circular 4 dt 12th Jan'10.
If leaders can insist on following points,while final settlement is made,it will be beneficial to all.
Negotiating Committee Meeting of AIBOC held on 8th January, 2010 at A Mumbai took the following decision:-
-To suggest to the IBA Small Committee to consider merger of 3028 points of D.A in B.P instead of 2638 points.
-To re-calculate incremental cost of pension, to reduce the burden.
-The CCA to continue for officers.
-Date of effect of 2nd Option on Pension be from 1st April, 2008.
-To collect data as regards number of resignations of CPF Optees from 1995 onwards for the purpose of taking up with IBA for their inclusion in 2nd Option.
-To demand grade pay on promotion.
-To exclude cost on account of SBI towards medical expenses and gratuity.
EXPECTED MESSAGE ON 23.01.2010
while some progress has been made in finalising the 9th BP settlement it appears that it will take some more time to finalise pay structure.There are some hurdles to overcome for which detailed discussions are necessary.IBA has agreed agreed to discuss the details in next round of meeting after due consultations with their higher authorities.The date of next round will be fixed shortly.Do not beleive in hearsay.Bear with us comrades,
Referring kashinath to January 13, 2010 11:21 AM & Jagadeesh January 13, 2010 2:53 PM:
90% apprehension, on commutation in future, will be as per sixth cpc table & 10% hope is, on the table in vogue in our industry as on date. Please note this table had been borrowed from the previous cpc's commutation table, once upon a time. When Unions failed to achieve a comparative bargaining in Ninth BPS, then how can we expect that they will fight for us on this small thing of continuation in old rate?
Sixth cpc's commutation value is approximately 20% less than previous one. It will be effective on & after signing of ninth BPS finally. However as on date like pension, old commutation chart is in force in banking industries. Thanks.
It will be ridiculous if the 6th CPC table is adopted in banks for arriving at the amount of commutation. When none of the benefits as per 6 th CPC are made available to bank employees in so far as wages are concerned,how only this commutation table can be adopted? Unions should reject such suggestions if any outright.If commutation table has to be revised it should be only on the basis of negotiations with the unions.Unilateral implementations if any has to be opposed tooth and nail.Or else all the benefits of 6th CPC should be extended to bank employees also including 95 % wage increase.Whatever the amount of commutation is paid to employees, the same is recoverable in 180 months and the monthly pension payable gets reduced proportionately to that extent.
Referring SHANKAR January 13, 2010 11:32 PM:
Dear Sir,
I am agree with your view, but observing Unions' present day modus operandi, I am not much hopeful on the matter.See how easily they shallowed NPS by replacing existing pension scheme in the line of GOI.So how can one be confident on those Unions/UFBU,which could not move beyond 17.5%,in spite of knowing all the financial gain of sixth cpc.Thanks.
Apprehensions on imposition of Government commutation factor for us looks absurd and unnecessary in as much as we have agreed to cough out Rs.1800 crores and the managements another Rs.4200 crores and non-optee retires Rs.915 crores to offset the incremental burden on actuaries - which obviously factored the cost of commutation also as per the existing table. When this aspect has not surfaced in any of the negotiating meetings, aspersions by members in blogs would only jeopardize our own interest and 'educate' the cunning IBA people to 'invent' more 'notorious' avenues to further humiliate the bank men. The need of the hour is absolute restraint on these sensitive items by us.
While no other benefits of 6th CPC are extended to us, no actuarial burden was invented in the case of Government employees and shared in any proportion. further more, there has been no comparison from management on CPC pattern and it is only we bank men vociferously crying with futile results. Hence where is the way of imposing one aspect on us?
some of our blog writers are unfortunately creating avoidable chaos in the minds of innocent members, using this platform to vent their pervert feelings treating themselves over smart. Let us practice restraint at this crucial time.
DEAR ALL,
I ALSO FEEL LIKE IYER. NO CONFUSION AT THIS JUNCTURE. AS LONG AS PENSION UPDATION IS NOT THERE NO QUESTION OF ADOPTING SIXTH CPC TABLE. LET US NOT INVENT SOME THING AND GIVE A CLUE TO THE CUNNING IBA TO CATCH THAT POINT .WE ALL CAN STOP ARGUMENTS OR POSTING COMMENTS TILL THE NEXT ROUND OF MEETING AND THE COMMENTS SHOULD BE AFTER KNOWING THE OUTCOME . GENERAL COMMENTS MAY BE OK BUT SPECIFIC COMMENTS CAN BE AVOIDED IN THE INTEREST OF ALL
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
i fully endorse the sentiments expressed by mr iyer in his latest mail. instead of wishfull thinking, we think of " calamities " which IBA may not have dreant !
knpatwekar
AS PER CIRULAR NO. 4 DT 12-01-2010, AIBOC IS PLANNING TO CONCLUDE THE SETTLEMENT BEFORE THE END OF FEBRUARY 2010. WHILE WELCOMING THEIR DECESION, WE SUGGEST TO ENSURE THAT THE WAGE ARREARS IS PAID BEFORE 31-03-2010.
MANY EMPLOYEES ARE PLANNING TO SAY GOODBYE TO THE BANKS AFTER THE PENSION OPTION. IF ARREARS IS PAID AFTER 31-03-2010, EMPLOYEES HAVE TO FACE HEAVY TAX BURDEN. HENCE, UFBU SHOULD TRY TO SIGN THE SETTLEMENT BEFORE FEB END AND ENSURE PAYMENT OF ARREARS BEFORE MARCH END SO THAT THE EMPLOYEES CAN PLAN THEIR RETIREMENT DURING THE FINANCIAL YEAR 2010-2011 IMMEDIATELY AFTER SIGNING PENSION PACT.
Referring above mentioned comments on commutation etc:
OK. Let us wait and hope for the best.This is just a discussion; nothing to be panic.Thanks.
mr. iyer is very right to advise restraint on writing sensations in the blogs at this crucial juncture when our learned leaders are trying to console the gains for the sacrifices.Old vs new like debate just harm the bankers unity and shall not benefit any body.New cpc vs old cpc is a non issue.every thing goes through the set of justice.pension is a social security issue for bankers community let be settled in that spirit by the negotiators.
thanxs mr iyer for your matured advice. m m l gupta
It is learnt that there is difference of 123 DA slabs payble to bank employees.One of the bank employees had filed a petition in court for supressing DA slabs in past.If this is true the bank employees are cheated again since long.Please discuss and confirm
Dear All,
I am reading this blog since 27.11.2009 and have never commented earlier but i was very much impressed by some of my dear colleagues who frequently for the sake of others are writing this blog which is immensely helpful. I would like to thank to my seniors especially to Mr. Balan, Mr. Iyer, Mr. Shanker & Mr. Chandan. All of you are really wonderful people, highly knowledgeable. I have yet to understand why people like Mr. Balan & Mr. Iyer left our banking industry (Through VRS). We, the younger bankers, are in dire need of people like you.
At last, I would like to quote Mr. Iyer Remarks which are very interesting "SAMBO, SAMBO". I laughed a lot after reading this blog.
I hope that this blog will continue even after when we get all arrers/pension. This blog is must for bankers and all of us can share any knowledge through this route.
Thanks & Regards
Referring mml gupta January 15, 2010 11:09 AM:
"Learned leaders are trying to console the gains for the sacrifices"
Dear Sir,
Comprehension of the sentence is quite hard. Request,a lucid style on the following:
1)Who are learned leaders?
2)What do they console?
3)'Gains for the Sacrifices'- Who & what does it represents?
Thanks.
Dear Sunilji,
I am serving UCO Bank in S.III and has about 7 years to go and a pension optee. Thank you very much for the compliments. I am sure, Mr Balan, Mr Shankar and other friends would always be in readiness to enrich our knowledge even after the settlement issues are addressed.
This forum is an excellant platform to unite the like minded people.
It is my earnest opinion that all bankmen should endeavour to learn all the facets of HR issues well to get protected and to feel protected while discharging onerous jobs. For that purpose, I believe this forum would be of immense help.
DEAR SUNILJI,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMPLIMENTS. SINCE MY WIFE IS ALSO EMPLOYED IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY AS AWARD STAFF AND SINCE I HAVE NOT SERVED BEYOND HYDERABAD THERE MIGHT BE A POSSIBILITY OF NORTH POSTING DURING MY SCALE III TENURE DURING 2001 . I OPTED FOR PENSION AND CONSIDERING ALL ASPECTS I PREFERRED TO TAKE VRS EVEN THOUGH I SERVED THE BANKING INDUSTRY VERY WELL AND WAS POPULAR IN MY PLACE OF WORK WHERE EVER I WAS. IT IS ONLY A WISH OF GOD.
NOW I AM HAPPILY SETTLED AT CHENNAI . MY WIFE ALSO WILL TAKE VRS ONCE THE SETTLENENT WAS IMPLEMENTED. I WILL DEFINITELY WRITE MY VIEWS ON AN ONGOING BASIS.
K BALASUBRAMANIAN
dear all,
will anybody from the blog please give /download over here a detailed basic paywise DA paid for the latest month for pensioners ? this will enable the bloggers to know total pansion he will receive corresponding to his basic pension pay.
even the link to get latest DA CIRCULAR FOR RETIRED BANK STAFF WILL ENABLE BLOGGERS TO GET THIS INFORMATION.
THANKS IN ADVANCE.
knpatwekar
Hello fellow [ex]bankers,
Will anybody asertain from any of the union office bearers regarding the agenda of the meeting to be he3ld on22&23 of this month?????
mr. chandan why ?should i make you understand the comments you are intelligent enough to skip if you are unable to comprehend.
regards
The final part of the circular from AIBEA about the 5th JAN BPS talks concluded as follows
It was also decided that simultaneously we shall also take up the process of drafting the settlement on wage revision / pension option
So in all probability the 90 percent of the 9th BPS may be over on that day
in response mr. knpatwekar For pensioner DA chart link is Website IBA.
ashokgoel
16.1.10
18.35
1)Who are learned leaders?
By virtue of my promotions and service, I was transferred by management to far off places like North India, Out of State, Rural branch etc every 3 to 4 years and I was forced to maintain 2 establishments and was not allowed to settle down at one place.
Instead of wishing my juniors not to have this type of hardships, I wish all my fellow juniors to have the same type of hurdles and wish them not to have peace in their career.
Then I will be a learned leader.
2)What do they console?
After becoming a leader, I will try to advise and console my fellow juniors to undergo all the hurdles I had to face and console them that the same are as per policies of the management. If anybody is unhappy they are at liberty to quit
3)'Gains for the Sacrifices'- Who & what does it represents?
I expect that for my sacrifices, I should get all the benefits and my fellow juniors are not expected to raise their voices. If at all they want these benefits, let them sacrifice as I did and then get the benefits.
Purely this is my opinion and experience. If I am wrong kindly condone me.
Referring SHANKAR January 16, 2010 9:23 PM:
"TERRIFIC"
mml gupta Sir,
Are you listening Sir?What's wrong, happened to our 'Learned Leaders'? After all, ours is the very land of Buddha and Gandhi.Isn't it?
Thanks.
I would like to open up a discussion on Inter State transfer of officers practiced by various banks. While the Government Guidelines stipulate that all officers should serve once out of their home state - nearest one - while in Scale I/II/III. i.e. within scale III one has to serve once out of home state. Such transfers are to be effected not on the basis of deficit-surplus formula but for the purpose of effective rotation. For, Surplus-deficit formula makes a particular set of officers more privileged to serve within their home state - often even within their District - while subjecting the ones from surplus states to suffer immensely.
However, it appears that most of the banks are adopting discriminating transfer policies. For instance, I had to suffer repeated Inter-state transfers to far off states like MP and Gujarat due to faulty policy while a few others escaped without any transfer even in Scale III.
Some private sector banks like KVB are offering atleast transfer allowance of Rs.5000 to 6000 to offset the financial burden on such transfers.
Let us now discuss the prevailing conditions in other banks and suggestions to mitigate this issue.
Referring IYER December 13, 2009 10:44 AM:
Dear Sir,
I find transfer/rotation policy in SBI differs from Nationalised banks. Previously upto scale IV and presently at least upto scale III officer's transfer is within the circle, which is generally confined to the territory of a state. Obviously within a state, one can enjoy the same culture,language,food habit, administrative set-up and feelings not to be far-away from home.As on date on very rare case SBI officer's transfer, upto scale III one has to go out of circle/state.
But in nationalised bank the very picture is something different.Not only to adjacent states, but also to far-away from home,here one has to face transfer, even in scale I. Thereby I always feel my allotment to a nationalised bank is a curse to me, for which I dare not to take promotion to a far-away place from home and now facing stagnation in increments.Whereas my counterparts in SBI, those, alloted from the same recruitment, even scoring less than me, now are in a better monetary position by accepting promotion, due to suitable policy of transfer/posting in vogue in their bank.
Recently I have an interaction with a senior staff member of Uco Bank, who told me that, his bank is initially providing a nearby posting for promotees from clerical to scale-I and after one term, they are posted far away from their respective states. This is nothing but a trap set by the management to fulfill its requirement.
Thanks.
Transfer policies in banks:-
After moving from one state to another for about 20 years,I find that transfer enhances our capability,knowledge etc. But at whose cost? Can you sacrifice education of your children for the sake of your transfer? Can you neglect your old aged parents for the sake of your transfer? Can you neglect marriage of your daughter? Are you capable of maintaining 2 establishments? The question is not about the policy.But about the way it is implemented.Favoring one and shunting other in the name of policy. Majority of officers are not against transfers provided it is applicable to each and every individual officer irrespective of his or her cadre,influence, relation with the higher authorities. And if they are treated at par with those having no influence and not related to any higher authority.
Here is the problem, where an honest officer, who is not ready to yield to pressures to do wrong things is shunted from one place to another in the name of transfer policy, where as others remain in the same place for ever even after several promotions, either by "CHAMCHAGIRI", or Influence, Or related to higher ups. For them transfer policy is applied in such a way that they get the most convenient place without getting their family life disturbed.The complaint is not about the "POLICY" but about the implementation part, where discrimination is used rampantly and union leaders are also part of it.
Luckily some banks are adopting positive approach.But unfortunately, majority of officers are suffering due to discrimination.There should be a limit for transfers.But in some banks, an officer retiring within a year is also not getting his opted place, in the name of policy. At least transfers should come to an end when an officer attains 52 years of age.
so chandan you are coming around bit by bit.truth can be felt no need for explanation
regards
Sir, Presently, pension and gratuity on retirement is calculated on the basis of average pay and allowance drawn as on last ten months from the date of retirement.In our charter of demand submitted to IBA, we have demanded that instead of above formula for calculating pension and gratuity, it should be on the basis of pay and allowance drawn on retirement. Our demand is quite justified. In sixth pay commission for central employees, last drawn salary is considered and accepted by the pay commission.When the Central Government accepted and considered the demand, why not in our case. Further, the officers who are retired after 01/11/2007 to 30/04/2008 will be at tremendous loss if the average emolument formula of ten months is not removed .In my view, it is a social obligation on the part of union/association to take up the matter strongly.
Therefore, it is my earnest request to please take up the matter at suitable level / forum through our esteemed organization.
Yours comradely,
S.C.Malviya
Some states - especially Gujarat and MP - are virtually run by 'borrowed' officers from far off states. Situation is almost same in all banks, for, Gujaratis who are qualitatively fne are not opting for promotions to avoid transfers and to look after family business and in MP there is derth of quality eligible people. I have the privilege of interacting with people from as many as 14 banks as we are part of a big consortium and could observe that because of this situation most of the PS banks are not able to grab sizeable business in Gujarat. Apart from personal predicaments, one is subjected to enormous risk when posted as number one of a branch due to lack of knowledge of the geography and language. In some states it will be difficult to run the show even if you are proficient in Hindi as you will be required to speak Gujarati, Malvi, Avanti etc., In Bihar you would require Bojpuri, Mythili and different ascents of Hindi!
Of course it gives us opportunity to visit different land scape, enjoy varied food and mix with multi class people belonging to different socialsegments and help fine tune our over all personality. But only one such term is enough. Same people in all scales should not be subjected.
Another issue is 'zero' monetary benefit on promotion. From scale I to II one hardly get one increment on fitment and beyond that no benefit. My batch mate who did not opt for Scale III is presently drawing same salary of mine and conveniently stationed in T.Nadu and I am with widened vulnerability drawing same scale in a far off State. This malady can be removed only if it is included as part of Industry level settlement.
If there is a Government guidelnes on Interstate transfers it should be implemented in all the banks.
As per pension regulation presently in vogue, average of ten months salary last drawn is taken for fixation of pension and gratuity. If an officer retired in Feb.2008, four months new salary and six months old salary will be taken to arrive at average pay for the purpose of fixation of pension and Gratuity. An officer (Scale-III) was drawing last basic pay of Rs.23520.00.His 6 months pay arrive at (23520 X 6) Rs.141120/-and 4 months new salary as advised in earlier blogs (basic+DA merger+15% load factor) comes to 35750X4=143000. Thus average emolument comes to Rs.28412.00.Basic pension being 50% of average pay comes to Rs.14206/-No DA thereon, as DA up to Sept.07 is merged in the new scale of pay. Whereas under the present pay, 50% of pension comes to Rs.11760/-+D.A.@33.3%-Rs.3916/-Total pension Rs.15676/-(without commutation). As is evident from above that the officer will get less pension by Rs.1470/-. I shall be obiliged if any one can guide/advise me the correct position in above regard.
Referring Paritosh January 18, 2010 9:14 PM:
REPRODUCE FROM HEADLINES "Thursday, December 24, 2009 Bank Pension Option : A detailed note on MOU signed on 27.11.09 and outcome of subsequent meeting."
chandan said...
Referring Parameswaran December 25, 2009 7:56 PM:
Dear Sir,
your basic for pension will be fixed as per eighth BPS because you have already retired before the date of nineth BPS finally signed(it is yet to be signed). But as you were on service as on Dt: 01/11/2007 (Due date for nineth BPS), as per previous practices noticed in earlier BPS, your last ten months average basic as per eight BPS(though you may draw wages arrears in new basic for seven months)+ DA as on AUG-OCT 2007 quarter will be considered to arrive on a 'new basic pension'. This amount has neither any direct resembles with eighth BPS nor with nineth BPS. However you will get new improved DA as per nineth BPS. This is known as 'UPDATION'.As on date this facility is not available to other retirees who retired during the span of previous BPS.
Here is an exemplary calculation to clear your doubts:
Suppose your basic is 20480/-, say average ten months basic is also 20480/-(I have not taken here FPP & PQP). Your DA amount for 164 slabs 29.52% as on drawn in OCT-07 stands 6046/-. So after adding Basic 20480/- with DA 6046/-(DA as on Dt:31/10/0/2007) it stands 26526/-. You have arrive in your new basic pension as per formula you know 26526/2 x number of years of service(subject to maximum 33)/33.Say it is 13263/- and on that basic you will get revised DA as per nineth BPS. As you retired in May-2008 you will get 28 slabs(pensioner's DA twice in a year i.e. Feb & Aug) and if it will be 0.15 per slab as per nineth BPS(yet to be decided), then new DA will be 4.2% & amount stands(on pension basic 13263/-) 557/-. So total pension will be 13263/- +557/- = 13820/- in June-2008.In old DA rate for 28 slabs you are to receive 5.04% on 10240/-(20480/2) amount stands 516/- in new DA you will get 557/-.When DA will go up the difference between old and new DA will be more in amount wise.This improvement only you will get for nineth BPS not anything else.
Had you been retired on or before Dt:31/10/2007, then you would have been not get any updation or new DA. Please note that, the concept of implemented dates for pension & wages are not the same.It is different from each other.
The doubt in your mind, that you have worked seven months in nine BPS period, so why not you get that effect.Please note it is not the due date of BPS, but the crucial date of BPS signed, from when new basic for pension gets its effect, for those who retired on or after the date(BPS signed).So if someone will be retired on today,he will also not get nineth BPS basic for pension like you, as BPS is yet to be signed.
Ours is a little bit different than 'central govt pension' which is effected from Dt:01/01/2006 from the date of new cpc implemented.In their case ten months average is not necessary. They can draw pension based on last month salary drawn.Thanks.
December 25, 2009 11:05 PM
chandan said...
A CLARIFICATION:
With reference to my comment December 25, 2009 11:05 PM:
Sometime the crucial date for pension to be drawn in revised BPS may be changed a little bit. In eighth BPS the date fixed for revised pension was on & onwards Dt: 01/05/2005, while BPS signed on Dt:02/06/2005.This change also to be taken into account in my earlier comment mentioned above.Someone retired as on date may or may not get new/revised basic for pension, depends on the subject to be signed finally between union & iba.However it must be after date of MOU signed i.e Dt: 27/11/2009.
December 26, 2009 7:53 AM
It is understood that this time only last drawn basic pay as per revised scale will be taken into consideration for the purpose of calculation of basic pension. So let us hope our leaders will take care of us. Anyway thanks to Chandan for clarifying our doubts. This time lot of improvements will take place over the previous settlements as this time our leaders could get the highest ever increase so far.
can anyone post new DA slabs for Feb'10?
The release of CPI(IW) for previous month will be made only on the last working day of the next month.Accordingly December figure will be released on 29th January`10.Exact DA can be calculated on availability of the same. Figures for Oct and Nov are 165 and 168 respectively . If the same figure is continued for December ,it can be assumed that DA Slabs will be 30, for Feb10.
My superannuation will be in the month of May 2020. I joined the Bank in Aug 81. My present basic pay-Rs.16010 Special Pay-Rs.1600/- PQA-Rs.900/-FPA-Rs.635/-. I am unmarried and a PF optee. My PF balance as at end of Sep 2009 was Rs.12.00 lacs. Mr.Balan,Mr.Iyer,Mr.Chandan,Mr.Shankar or anybody else please advise whether opting for pension will be advantageous in my case and if so how, with necessary calculations please.
Referring R. January 19, 2010 6:10 PM:
Dear R.,
Being a student of Sociology, I can't find any relation between married or unmarried on opting for pension. Pension is a social security and looking to your age, I can bet,you must opt for pension.It would be both socially and financially beneficial to you at the time of your retirement.However I feel your management contribution is 6 lakhs and total PF including your contribution is 12 lakhs.Because my Branch Manager recently retired, with Basic Rs 22900/-, joined in 1974,a pension optee, had received 8.5 lakhs as his own PF contribution.He had also never drawn any non-refundable PF amount from his PF during his service period.
Thanks.
Referring PM January 19, 2010 5:15 evening:
BANK DA FOR FEB-2010 CALCULATED BY CHANDAN A MONTH BACK, AS A REPLY TO SWAMI, IN THE FOLLOWING HEADLINES, REPRODUCED:
"Wednesday, December 16, 2009
State Bank Officers accuse disparity, want separate wage structure, discussed initially with management on this issue."
Swami said...
Await another 43 slab DA increase from February, 2010. A solace to the high level of inflation.
December 18, 2009 10:46 PM
chandan said...
Referring Swami December 18, 2009 10:46 PM:
Bank employees DA for February-2010 will be around & within 30 slabs. Not more than it. Oct-09 CPI Industrial is 165, Nov-09 CPI Industrial is expected 167 based on CPI Agriculture/Rural index Nov-09 published on 18/12/2009 & another 1 or 2 point rise can be expected in December-09. If it is 168 for Dec-09, then Feb-2010 DA will be 28 slabs; if it is 169 then it will be 30 slabs. In exceptional situation, if there will be 3 points rise in Dec-09 DA may be 32 slabs, but this chances are quite remote. However it will be never 40 or 43 slabs rise. Central govt DA for July-2010 will be around 9% and will touch 44%. In next rise it will cross 50% mark and 25% out of it, will be automatically converted to Dearness Pay as per sixth cpc's provision to fetch more DA(DP included), HRA & Transport Allowance in term of amount wise.
December 19, 2009 6:21 PM
Swami said...
Dear Chandan, my calculations are based on the rate of increase over previous year not only under Agri and rural labour which is 2.5% over oct 09, but also rate of inflation of food products, manufutured food products which constitute major part in CPI. The same situation is under way as was in 1998. It will get reduced only by May, 2010. The calculations are not to have more DA but to compensate highest excalating food prices where a 100 rupee note does not finds it true value.
December 20, 2009 7:31 PM
THANKS.
Referring R. January 19, 2010 6:10 PM:
Please note that opting pension is purely gambling.The benefit is not for you but to your wife particularly if she is
un employed.Because she need not depend on others till her death for her bread.As far as you are concerned, pension is beneficial if you live at least up to 70 to 72 years without health problem.Pension can not be taken away or stolen by others including your own children or relatives because you will be getting the same on monthly basis till your death. You may get a substantial amount of PF at the time of retirement if you can save through voluntary PF in addition to your compulsory PF and keep the same in banks or POs and get monthly interest. But at the age of 70 or 72, the guarantee of a strong mind is doubtful and you are bound to have a weak mind and have lack of confidence. You may also loose your own money for one or other compulsion. But your bread is assured by opting for pension till your death.
Hence the best way is to opt for pension and simultaneously save some additional amount through VPF or PPF and have your own substantial money at the time of retirement and also ensure that your bread till your death and of your wife's thereafter is not vanished. Remember that your own strong mind now may become weak at a later date. These are all eventualities in life and you have to take a step beneficial both to you and your family members.Sacrifice and gain goes hand in hand by pension option and
like a train track.With best wishes.
Mr.Shanker has spelt out in clear terms the need for opting pension.Not for Mr.R, it is applicable to persons of similar realities. An opportunity now secured,should be utilised without any doubt.Whatever may the savings we make,in life time ,same cannot be compared with regular monthly pension one receives and the mental pleasure to boost confidence.
BANK DA FOR FEB-2010 QUARTER:
Just now 'Press Information Bureau, GOI' declared a six point rise in Agriculture Labourers price index for the month of Dec-2009. Basing on this Two point rise is expected on CPI for Industrial Workers, to be declared on 29th Jan-2010 for the month of Dec 2009. So the average for the quarter of Oct-Dec 2009 will be 167.66 and will result 34 slab or 6%+ increase on Bank DA for Feb.In worst case also, it can't go below the 32 slabs.'Labour Bureau Government of India' index on agriculture labourers is yet to be published, may come in late evening today.
Thanks.
Everyone
I observe Now in this blog nobudy telling about wage revision only telling about pension... pension...
and pension. I am also PF optee.
Pension is our future and wage is our present.Why west our present for our future.I think everybudy has seen the film "2012"
I will also sure and opt pension option now.But unrevisable pension is not good.Our bank pensioners get basic pension same from 1995 to till.This time We all lose present.Its good for our elders and retired employees.Me also...
But nobudy discusse about wage.All discusses about pension. We get new salary after 2 or 3 months, and in recent DAL Rs.90/-Per/kg
Sugar Rs.45/-per/kg time no one person discuss about DA that We will get in Feb'10.In DA so called leaders also put us in dark.
Please don't take other way.I am not critising anybudy.I write what I feel and observed.
Referring to SANJAY BHAT, January 20, 2010 9:43 PM
It is true that only pension issue is discussed here.Because, pension demand is pending since 1995, that is from past 15 years where as wage revision is since 01.11.1997 (2 years) and every 5 years wage settlement is bound to be settled with arrears without any doubt.
Only the load has to be settled. There is no ambiguity or uncertainty about wage settlement. But pension issue went up to Supreme Court because of the indifferent attitude of both IBA and UFBU who unnecessarily dragged the matter for several years.Several retirees expecting pension are already dead.
Further without settling pension issue, wage settlement would have been a nightmare because none of the PF optees, who were fighting for pension all these years would not have participated in any of the strike calls given by UFBU. Knowing this very well, UFBU linked wage issue with pension issue unnecessarily. Even in 2012, one more wage settlement is bound to be settled. Now wage load as agreed at 17.50 % of total establishment expenses as on March 2007 will have to be paid and both the parties are working out the sharing formula.
There is no need to have any doubt about wage arrears as and when it falls due every 5 years where as pension arrears is even now not certain.
By viewing films practical aspects can not be settled. It is a fact that practical life is different from films. Several producers/directors/Actors who gave extraordinary films in the field have utterly failed in their personal life.
You need not have any worry about your arrears/wage increase. It is 100 % certain.Arrears calculations are very very simple now a days because of computerization and once settlement is signed it will be fast.
Managements are required to contact all retirees since 1995 by collecting their latest whereabouts and settle the matter which is laborious.
So far none of the wage settlement remained unsettled for an unduly long period at the same trend will continue
You need not have any tension.
Anybody knows what points are going to discuss in Next meeting on22nd January??
Thanks to Chandan for the clarification dt.18th Jan.10.22 pm.
You advised that as per the practice, benefits of new wage revision under the new settlement may be available to retirees from the date of signing of new settlement (which is not yet signed up to 20th Jan.2010) and not from the date of settlement due i.e. 01/11/2007 even if they are retired on or after the date of settlement due and prior to the date of signing of settlement. Why this cut of date of signing of settlement is fixed. Who is responsible for not signing it. Certainly not the employees/officers. Who prevented them (IBA and UFBU) from signing the settlement earlier? Suppose if it is not signed further for some more periods, the poor retirees who retired from 1st nov.07 to dec.2009 will suffer. What is the logic / criteria for applicability of date of signing of settlement for the retirees, when they get all the benefits under the new wage revision from the date of settlement to date of signing of settlement. It is not just and proper, why the employees retired under the span of new settlement to dt. of signing of settlement is deprived from getting benefits of new revised pay for which they waited for several years i.e since last BPS. If it happens, it may be a good case to challenge in court of law to find natural justice.
Res.Shankarji
Thanks for answer.
I have no hurry to get arrears.
But time has own big meaning and value.I agreed pension is most important for us.I am also PF optee.
I am not an early born chiled.I know wage settlement will signed on or before 24th febuary 2010 as per MOU signed between UFBU and IBA.I have no tension and hurry for it.If it will late then We will get more budled of amount by way of arrears.Wage is also same important like pension.I am also waiting for pension option since 1995.But When I observed there are 300 comments out of 355 about pension,then I am little bit engry.
Where are our discussion points like
1)Pay Commission for bankers
2)Failure of leaders
3)Parity in wage and etc
4)Resigned from Union and Association
Where is over mentioned past discussed points.
I think there all gone in to Amazon Forest or flying in the sky or it mixed in to penssion like sugar in milk.
Everybudy forgot over mentioned points and discussed only pension...pension only. I know pension is most valueable for me and my fellows and retired friends.
I observed pension point is centrlized in this blog like MURCURY.
Please don't take it other way. This blog is good platform to discuse and share our knowlege and thoughts.Then I share my thoughts.Thanks to web site.I got very knowledge from here.
I respect our elders need of pension.
Now only one thought playing in this blog i.e. pension.Whats for other points.Now MOU signed and shortly settlement will signed,then other discussed point has no value? There are more important for our future for safe job carrier better wage hike.
Every work has time limit.This time leaders simply be fool us,and also cross the time limit to solve wage or pension. This time pension is achievment and less getting is lose for us.So,I requested all to consentrate on our lose factor and discussed it and find out some way for next time.If We discussed here then We can find some way from here and may be possible our thoughts reached to so called leaders. I know our limits.But We can discuused for good outcome.
Again Don't take it other way.
GooD Night.
Mr.Karen,
As per latest information:-
The next round of discussions between the Core Group of the Negotiating Committee of IBA and representatives of the Officers’ Associations on Wage Revision will be held on 23rd January 2010 in the office of IBA, World Trade Centre, Mumbai. In this proposed meeting construction of Pay Scales, Allowances, Pension costing and other related issues will be discussed further. Prior to the above meeting, a meeting of UFBU will be held on 22nd January 2010 to sort out certain issues arising out of MOU signed on 27th November 2009 and reach a common understanding.
i get the news that SBI Employees are also going to get only 17.5% in wage revision.govt refused to give more.
Ref: My post R. January 19, 2010 6:10 PM
Dear Mr.Chandan and Mr.Shankar,
thank you very much for your comments in reply to my post. I want further clarifications. I am unmarried and if I opt for pension no family pension to me. I have to surrender Rs.6.00 lacs, the contribution of PF by the management and also I have to pay around Rs.60000/- from my arrears to the pension corpus fund.
Do you still feel opting for pension is good in my case. Please clarify.
Referring R. January 21, 2010 8:12 PM:
Dear R.,
Don't go for any second
thought. Must opt pension. At the time of your retirement you will get atleast 50% of Management
contribution from commutation. My advice is "Don't cook too much" & "Don't repeat the mistake". Otherwise you will repent in future and none will make you available the option once again. So please don't be confused. Thanks.
Dear Friends
A Pension as a social security is a must.Have no doubts. It was precisely
this confusion last time that led us to this sorry mess.Always opt for pension when you have the chance. I am an old pension optee with 8years
service left and am proud I took the right decision even then.
REVI UNNI
Referring Paritosh 17, 2010 7:45 PM:
WHY,WHY & WHY?
Dear friend,
You have raised a "Million Dollar Question". Please note, still I am a student in this particular subject. I feel the very Convener of UFBU Mr C.H.Venkatachalam can clarify it better. You can write to him; email is chv.aibea@gmail.com
Today's most pathetic and burning situation for a Bank Pensioner is 'Non updation of DA for Retirees'. The quarry raised by you regarding effective date etc is second to it.
However Parliament Committee has agreed for DA updation and hope it would be implemented soon.
I also suggest, to study the system of our Judiciary and compare the 'Cost of Relief' with 'Degree of Relief' available from it, on these type of subjects,before challenging the same in the court of law to find so called natural justice of the land.
Thanks.
what is the outcome of today's meeting?plz reply as soon as possible
22/01/2010 - In the meeting of IBA & workmen unions today, further discussions took place on Pay Scales, Special Allowances, clubbing HRA & CCA and improvement in other allowances and items.Calculations will be reworked on the above lines. Next meeting will be on 9th February 2010.
Referring R. January 21, 2010 8:12 PM:
I endorse the view of Sri Chandan. However,I would like to keep away from advising others because by seeking advise from others/unions nearly 3 lakh employees did a mistake earlier. Hence I wish that each and every employee should analyze himself and take a decision for himself as to whether to opt for pension or not.Better not to repent at a later date by listening to others as we did earlier. As Sri Chandan has said, getting one more pension option in the existing formula is ruled out as the NPS will be effective from 01.04.2010 and the old scheme will get a natural death.
somebody say that what will be approxmimate amount to be paid by the old and new pension optees from their arrears towards defecit in pension fund...will it depend up and remaining yrs of serveice???
Dear Mr Kumar, it transpires that the existing employees - both optees and non-optees would be required to cough out amount equal to 10.47% of bank's contribution to Pension/PF fund as of 31.03.2008.
WHY BPS IS DELAYED???:
"Once the wage is settled the workers are required to dole out a levy i.e. a percentage of the arrears of their revised wages to their trade unions which they belong. Obviously you understand the trick, more the delay in wage revision, more the amount of arrears so bigger the amount of levies! Surprised! but this is the norm of wage negotiations and despite of deep resentment amongst the workers (whose voices are always suppressed) for the delay and the undue levy, the practice is on ever since bipartite wage negotiation between Indian Banker’s Association and several trade-unions"
'EXTRACT, TAKEN FROM SOMEONE'S COMMENT'
23/01/2010 - 3rd round of Small Committe meeting for Wage Revision of Officers was held today. Issues like HRA, Pension Costing, SBI Earmarking etc were discussed today.Uniform Pay rise, comparable increments, higher starting pay, stagnation increments demanded. Next round of meeting will be held on 08/02/2010. Details will be uploaded shortly.
Talks with IBA
Another round of talks was held today between five workmen unions and IBA. At the outset, tribute
was offered to Com. Jyoti Basu, the doyen of Indian political scenario, who passed away on 17th this
month. Homage was also paid to Mr. Mohan Rao, a member of the negotiating committee of IBA,
who died recently
In the talks today, items discussed were.; construction of basic pay, rates of increment, rationalization
of special pay for clerks and sub-staff, revised rates of HRA after clubbing the same with CCA,
incremental cost of pension, revision of other allowances like washing allowance, cycle allowance,
project area allowance, split duty allowance, hill and fuel allowance, halting allowance, transport cost
and breakage allowance on transfer, etc. On LFC, we demanded extension of distance, inclusion of
physically challenged dependent brother/sister in family definition, separate entitlement of spouse
working in the same bank, revision of income limit for dependent parents, revision of road mileage
rate, visit to neighboring countries, reimbursement of fares from difficult areas to mainland over and
above permissible limits under LFC, removal of condition of leave for 4 days for encashment of LFC,
etc. Upgradation of employees on consolidated pay to 1/3 scale wage has also been demanded.
Improvement in hospitalization scheme, sanction of 45 days of Special Leave to female employees
for under going special surgery like hysterectomy against unavailed portion of maternity leave have
been asked for. Revision of duties of allowance carrying posts has also been discussed.
No final decision on any item has been taken. Next date of talks has been scheduled on 09th Feb,’10.
Incidentally, during the informal meeting of workmen’s unions in the morning, preceding the talks with
IBA, we have insisted that Special Area Allowance for NE Region should be taken up and properly
addressed at the appropriate stage of the negotiations.
In the evening, UFBU met and inter-alia, decided that cut off date for payment of pension to retiree
new optees should be 01.04.2008.
SOURCE;BEFI WEBSITE
DISCUSSIONS HELD WITH IBA - 23.01.2010
GIST OF DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN IBA AND FOUR OFFICERS’ ORGANISATIONS
AT MUMBAI ON 23RD JANUARY 2010.
One more round of discussions took place between IBA and four Officers’ Organisations today at Mumbai.
The Management team was lead by Shri Jagdish Pai, Chairman of the small committee of IBA.
IBA gave their revised proposals of Basic Pay Structure with Rs,14000 beginning and ending with Rs.54400. They have agreed to remove the cost of leave encashment on retirement. On pension costing, the differences persist in the matter of new pension option. With regard to date of payment of pension, IBA is only prepared to effect payment from the date of settlement whereas Unions want from 01-04-2008. On the cost of SBI pension wherein IBA has allocated an increase of Rs.132 crores also, Unions have objected as it is a new item suddenly introduced after the first chart was given by the IBA.
Thus no finality could be reached on scale of pay, pension cost and date of effect of payment of pension to new optees.
It has been agreed that Unions will work out their scale of pay, presenting uniform loading effect to IBA upon which further discussions will take place.
The next round of discussions to take place on 08-02-2010 and Unions will submit their proposals to IBA by 27-01-2010.
AIBOA
CHENNAI
23-01-2010
GIST OF DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN IBA AND FOUR OFFICERS’ ORGANISATIONS
AT MUMBAI ON 23RD JANUARY 2010.
One more round of discussions took place between IBA and four Officers’ Organisations today at Mumbai.
The Management team was lead by Shri Jagdish Pai, Chairman of the small committee of IBA.
IBA gave their revised proposals of Basic Pay Structure with Rs,14000 beginning and ending with Rs.54400. They have agreed to remove the cost of leave encashment on retirement. On pension costing, the differences persist in the matter of new pension option. With regard to date of payment of pension, IBA is only prepared to effect payment from the date of settlement whereas Unions want from 01-04-2008. On the cost of SBI pension wherein IBA has allocated an increase of Rs.132 crores also, Unions have objected as it is a new item suddenly introduced after the first chart was given by the IBA.
Thus no finality could be reached on scale of pay, pension cost and date of effect of payment of pension to new optees.
It has been agreed that Unions will work out their scale of pay, presenting uniform loading effect to IBA upon which further discussions will take place.
The next round of discussions to take place on 08-02-2010 and Unions will submit their proposals to IBA by 27-01-2010.
AIBOA
CHENNAI
23-01-2010
so this is the real story. forget about early settlement. The mou signed in November will go laps on Feb 27. and we will have to start agitation again as IBA is offering start only with 14000/-. Where are those people who were saying that basic pay will be arrived with (current BP*1.69)+20% rise ?
We can't get start with even 16000/- as after two months of talk the offering is only 14000/- and it can never be more than 15000/- from IBA side. So either accept 14000 or start agitation again.
Good luck !
It seems to me that UFBU had an underhand dealing with IBA and they are trying to misguide the members just by bringing SBI/ Non SBI differences. I fail to understand the objection from UBFU for SBI getting more when we are getting nothing. UFBU should have an objection in accepting 17.5% wage revision. Now when they have agreed to it, why they are objecting to SBI getting more than that. I strongly feel that we should try to hike our increase to the maximum rather than putting all our efforts towards stopping SBI getting more than us.The fact remains that we will only benefit if SBI gets more than us as we can again seek parity any time from IBA/ our respective banks.The division between employees of Banking industry will be bad for everybody and only Venkatachalam , Sridharan and Nadaf will be responsible for this. These 3 leaders ( or chamchas of IBAs/ Govt- everyone knows their political affiliation) are (apart from IBA & GOI ( who have a duty to treat everybody as equal ) are playing games with Bankers. The time is not far when we bankers will be forced to work in situations prevalent in GOI ( come when u want, go when u want, no productivity, Customers will be denied service after business hours just like railway counters closes sharp at time (even when there are hundreds of customers standing in queque). Do the IBA/GOI want Bankers to demand bribe ( % of loan sanctioned/ A/c opening fee etc) so as to maintain a decent life style. If the UFBU/ AIBOA/AIBEA/AIBOC is sincere in getting decent salary hike, why no agitation for such demand?
DISCUSSIONS HELD WITH IBA - 23.01.2010
GIST OF DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN IBA AND FIVE WORKMEN UNIONS ON 22ND JANUARY 2010 AND FOUR OFFICERS’ ORGANISATIONS ON 23RD JANUARY 2010 AT MUMBAI.
FURTHER ROUNDS OF TALKS WILL BE CONTINUED TILL 01.11.2012
Attention: Mr.C N VENUGOPAL,
M BALASUBRAMANIAN, SHANKAR, PM, PARAMESHWARAN, CHANDAN ...
Onna irukka kathukkanum, Indha unmaiya chonna othukkanum, Kaakka (UFBU) koottatha paarunga, Adhukku kathu koduthathu yaarunga!
Referring January 23, 2010 11:29 PM r rajendran woraiyur trichy:
Dear Sir,
I am from Eastern and unable to understand the meaning of your following quotation. Request for an english/hindi translation.
Thanks.
"Onna irukka kathukkanum, Indha unmaiya chonna othukkanum, Kaakka (UFBU) koottatha paarunga, Adhukku kathu koduthathu yaarunga!"
It is a fact that, expectations of general members, working and retired have gone up on release of details of MOU dt.27-11-2009 between IBA and Bank Unions.Degree of level of expectations and anticipation may vary. It cannot be blamed since it is genuine one,as reflected in comments and views expressed.
We are aware that ,while releasing the above information, Union have stated that- 1. `The wage increase of 17.5% is the highest ever in the industry `- and 2.`Second option on pension to PF optees is historic victory`-
When leaders themselves try to convince general members, that `the agreements showcase the magnificent unity,relentless struggle, and immense patience and fortitude shown by members` the pertinent question is :
-why the leaders forget the members while taking efforts to make it a reality by arriving to final settlement within 90 days,if they attach any sanctity to MOU signed.
-Why they fail to understand the genuine expectations of members for decent pay scale within the above agreed frame work with maximum load in basic pay.
-why the the delay in fixing effective date of pension.
-why keeping silent on updation of pension/100% DA neutralization
Few lakhs of families of working and retired bankmen,are still keeping hopes on leadership despite the fact that undue delay has taken place and still the drama continues without any transperancy.
It is a reality that no miracles will happen when final settlement comes out.However why can`t the leaders take earnest efforts to arrive atleast to a reasonable settlement within the parameters and within the time frame?.
What is the Basic Pay Structure (with increments) suggested by IBA?
The MOU dated 27.11.2009 between IBA and UFBU will be water shed and demise of trade union in the Banking Trade union Movement because it will go the way the MOU dated 25.02.2008 on pension has gone. The 3 month of MOU dated 25.02.2008 never came to end and we are at such sory stage in Jan 2010.
anil kumar
UNIONS ARE GETTING SUFFICIENT MONEY FROM MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE SUBSRCIPTION IS INCREASED AT THE WILL OF THE LEADERS WITHOUT REFERENCE TO THE COST TO CARRY UNION ACTIVITIES. AUTERITY MEASURES EQUALLY APPLY TO UNION LEADERS.
THE ATTITUDE OF THE LEADERS IS VERY MUCH SUSPICIOUS.THE DELAY IN SETTLEMENT AND ENDLESS MEETINGS WITHOUT RESULT INDICATE THAT DELAY IN SETTLEMENT GENERATES MORE AMOUNT OF ARREARS WHICH WILL IN TURN BRING MORE AMOUNT OF REVENUE TO THE UNIONS BY WAY LEVY TO FEED THE LEADERS. IF THE TREND IS LIKE THIS MEMBERS CAN REFUSE PAYMENT OF LEVY. LET THE AMOUNT OF SUBSCRIPTION BE INCREASED AT APPROPRIATE TIME BY EVIDENCING SUCH REQUIREMENT.
BUT THE LEADERS ARE VERY MUCH SMART AND INTELLIGENT AND GET THE LEVY DEDUCTED THROUGH SALARY DEUCTION WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE MEMBERS BY MANAGING AT TOP LEVEL IN THE BANK. WHETHER MEMBERS ARE INTERESTED OR NOT TO PAY THE LEVY IS IMMATERIAL. MODUS OPERANDI IS TO GET A CIRCULAR ISSUED BY THE BANK LIKE " .... UNION HAS REQUESTED FOR RECOVERY OF LEVY AT ...% OF THE SALRAY ARREARS, WHICH THE BANK HAS AGREED AS A SPECIAL CASE. SUCH OF THE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED TO CONTIBUTE FOR LEVY ARE REQUESTED TO COMMUNICATE TO THE SALARY DIVISION BEFORE.... NO REQUEST WHAT SO EVER WILL BE ENTERTAINED THERE AFTER."
LEADERS ARE SMART AND INTELLIGENT WHEN DEALING WITH MEMBERS BUT NOT WHEN DEALING WITH IBA AND MANAGEMENT. OUR SHAMELESS LEADERS SHOULD NOT ASK FOR LEVY THIS TIME. SINCE, THE MAJOR PORTION OF ARREARS IS BEING ADJUSTED TOWARDS PENSION OPTION AND LITTLE AMOUNT WILL BE LEFT WITH THE MEMBERS, LEADERS SHOULD FOREGO THE LEVY THIS TIME.. LET US RESOLVE NOT TO PAY LEVY THIS TIME.
Referring MADAPPA 24, 2010 4:32 PM
"LET US RESOLVE NOT TO PAY LEVY THIS TIME"
Dear Sir,
Happy to find the fire of 'Mangal Pandey, Sepoy Mutiny 1857 ' in you, but afraid of the ultimate result of the same, as happened in those Mutiny days.
Thanks.
Dear Chandan Sir
Read ur comment on my comment on leaders. First of all let me accept the fact that you are more knowledgeable than me. However can u please explain the reasons for this inefficiencies of our leaders. Why do you think that unions have lost their bargaining power, even in the matter of wage increase which impacts all the employees of industry and all the members , i hope , are willing to participate in any agitational programee called by Unions in sicerity. I do understand that apart from ourself, we do work for the nation, but that does not stops us from making our justified demand. Why cannot we go for indefinite strike ( when doctors in Mumbai, whole of UP staffs, few airline staffs can call the force the govt to agree to their demand). Yes, writing in blogs is another and bargaining with management is others and that is why only few people reach there. Do not we employees have a right to expect our leaders to fight for us and get a better deal for us. Wage is always relative, and if you donot like this, may be u can say that we can live with existing wage also, ( as the same is already higher than average indian per capita income). Do you mean to say so?
Also can u plese enlighten me the reason for losing our bargaining powers since 70s and 80s.
What is so historic about this wage revision? Do u feel that our leaders will be transparent and inform us the pay scale that they are supposed to give to IBA by 27th. More over what is your opinion on pay scales (ratio of Starting and ending).
Wef Min Max Ratio
01.02.84 1175 4600 3.91
(4600 is fixed)
01.01.87 2100 7000 3.33
01.11.92 4250 14000 3.29
01.04.98 7100 21300 3
01.11.02 10000 32600 3.26
Exp 14000 54400 3.88
Why so much increase in max, if the ratio of 3.26 is maintained and ending scale of 54400 is also maintained , the starting scale would come to 16700 or so. Please give ur learned opinion on this
Referring Rakesh Kumar 24, 2010 9:56 PM:
Dear friend,
I myself a victim of the same low salary structure in bank and now advice every one known to me, appearing competitive exams to choose bank job as their last option. By leaving a fine 5 days week central govt job in 1992, I joined here as per the advice of some senior SBI employees and now facing all problem and with this tense, now at this age of 43, already became a neurological patient for last two years and on 3 pills a day.
Please also refer my reply to Mr Sanjay Bhatt on January 24, 2010 6:34 PM under the headlines: 'Friday, January 22, 2010 Details of bipartite talks with IBA on 22nd January and 23rd January' for this purpose.
Thanks.
so what we do...why dont we affliate ourselves to unions associated with local/regional parites like dmk or other parties instead of sticking to the communist based ones........ because the recent pay hike to state/quasi govt employees offered by the dmk govt in tn seems juciy likewise the cent govt emplyoees' also good.......hhhhehheee
Dear Mr Kumar, The very idea of floating or joining unions/associations affiliated to Regional Political outfits would be suicidal. Why should we need any political party to back us. While state and Central governments are generous with their employees to get their 'personal agenda' passed through and to secure the vote bank, bankmen do not enjoy that position because they move across the country like nomads.
The vulnerability factor of an employee/officer of a bank has also spread on the Bank Leaders of late for multifarious reasons, making them very weak - both individually as well as collectively. They are suffering from phobias of many kinds - the proposed mergers, depleting memberships, their own retirement and personal maladies. That is the reason why they started the negotiations with a bang and ended up like a punctured balloon!
One more reason for the failure is more number of unions and associations and diagonal views and leg pulling by the constituents during the course of negotiations. Our weaknesses were effectively used by the IBA. It is also true that with a view to fish out some erring members out of gallows, sometimes our leaders compromise with bigger demands meant for all the members. It all happen because of political affiliations!.
Let us try to get our present outfits dissociated with the communists first.
Implementation of DA ARREARS to RBI PENSIONERS RETIRED BEFORE 2002
CAN ANYONE CLARIFY IF THIS DA ARREAR WOULD ALSO BE APPLICABLE TO RETIRED EMPLOYEES OF OTHER PSU BANKS RETIRED BEFORE 2002.
Ref:Mr.Venkatakrishnakumar.
RBI made a review of their Pension Regulations 1990,and decided to pay arrears of dearness relief on pension/family pension in respect of employees retired/deceased before Nov 1st 2002 from the month of February 2005 to Feb 2008 as per rates specified vide cir dt.1.1.`10..Other PSB employees comes under Pension Regulation 1995,where a decision has to be taken .
Refer Sri Rakesh Kumar-January 24, 2010 9:56 PM and Sri Chandan's view
I would like to quote one example.ED of a Nationalized bank took a firm decision to transfer central Office bearers of recognized unions,The President,
the General Secretary and the Treasurer as per policy of the bank.Till then the union leaders were behaving as if they were representatives of the managements and not of their members and the members were at their mercy and the transfer policy was applicable only for a section of officers. Hundreds of officers were scapegoats of this dirty policy and remained out of their home town and never came back. But those who were able to manage with the managements/unions/executives never left not only their home town but remained in the same building even after 3-4 promotions as if without them bank will collapse. When these union leaders got themselves transferred they realized the difficulty of other officers. They might then have felt that the best way is to get adjusted with the management instead of members and leave the members to their own destiny instead of fighting for them.Unless local candidates get appointment in banks and transfer policy is not used as a weapon to get rid of straight forward, honest,efficient officers,I feel this will continue and bargaining power of the unions will never improve.This is in majority of banks.
hi chandan are you observing all this ? now can you tell me wheather? or if? we would console or condole mou dated 27-11-2009 on 28th feb 2010.
good luck for all after all god is with us, the poor bank employees who are always axed for their honesty and loyalty to the nation.
regards
mml_gupta@rediffmail.com
Referring mml gupta January 25, 2010 4:32 PM:
Dear Sir,
Our condition is like " Beggars are not choosers" And it is due to these leaders. What can I say more?
Thanks.
Visit "AllBankingSolutions.com"
dear sir,
first u joim in the congress affiliated union and made negotiations where central and state govts employees are getting more salaries when compared to our banks. the so called communist affiliation should not get any achievements on bank employees. i request one and all to strenghen the aicte and get goods monies of it. banks become nationalized by indira gandhi now become strong in the recent workd crisis. so i request you all to think about it and do ythe needful
suresh bandaru
Referring suresh bandaru 27, 2010 10:16 PM:
Dear Mr suresh bandaru,
My personal observation says, bank nationalisation by Smt Indira Gandhi, was done with an eye to catch the vote bank, by utilising the fund rotated through this channel.
Thanks.
dear chandan,
dont feel pity on you ,i tell you that great leaders were born out of the rags.com vardhan and comrade parwana were born at times when bankers were literally beggars and managements were kings.it is a law of nature that comforts level increase the greed to fight for self interests and therefore fragmentation in the cadre starts but still we hope for the best in times to come,human nature is fragile it can change split second.
regards mml gupta
Referring to Shri Shanker ji-27th Jan.11.07pm.
Sir, I referred the blog of Mr. Swami dated 26th Jan.10.09pm, wherein he pointed out under his point no. 3 that "In all the previous settlements, effective date of pension is date of signing of the settlement, WHEREAS IBA NOW OFFERED THE SAME WEF 01/11/2007 thereby making the wage revision money to drain towards pension only and leaving wages to be less settled.
I do not know the authenticity of Mr. Swami’s above information but if it is true than I have to state as under:
1 IBA want that effective date for the pension should be 01/11/2007 but it seems that our leaders are not agreeable to it.
2 Mr. Swami afraid that if effective date 01/11/2007 is made for pension, a portion of the package will go to the pensioner and wages for the existing employees will be less.
3 The Employees / Officers retired after 9th BPS i.e after 01/11/2007,will get arrears of salary under the new pay scale but their pension shall be calculated on the basis of old pay under 8th BPS because signing of the settlement is delayed either by IBA or UFBU for more than 26 months on the pretext of one and another. You will rarely found such an example that the salary is paid under the revised new pay scale but pension is paid calculated on the basis of old pay scale. Why the employees/officers retired from the date of settlement due i.e. 01/11/2007 to date of signing of the settlement has to suffer un-necessarily. In my view, under the pension regulation nowhere it is said that pension shall be paid from the date of signing of the settlement. For calculation of pension, last drawn salary on the basis of 10 months average emoluments is taken as per the regulation. Mr. Swami has to think that he too has to retire one day from the Bank services than why he think that if pension is made effective from 01/11/2007, their wages shall be settled less. Since date of retirement is not in our hand otherwise we would prefer to be retired after the date of signing of the settlement.
Thanks, with regards.
There is a hefty loss for the persons who took retirement in the early 01 in getting pension arrears. Already they are demanding pension from the date of retirement. They will be happy if the pension is disbursed from the date of 9th bipartite settlement.
I understand that UFBU leaders are insisting that pension option should be given to the new optees with effect from 1.04.2008.I feel the reason for this is that the Actuaries have arrived at the total gap of pension fund as on 31/03/08.
I again feel that IBA should not have any objection to allow option from 1.04.2008 to the new optees provided the PF optees pay the interesst on the gap due from them from 1.04.08 to till the date of agreement which may come on an average another Rs.25000/- on RS.150000/-at P.F rate of interest.This amount of Rs.25000/- will be covered in 3 or 4 months pension payment and this will substantially benefits the new PF optees without affecting anything.
I would draw the attention of the leaders of UFBU to give a thought to this suggestion and I hope no new PF optee will object to this and IBA also cannot refuse this reasonable demand.
I would be grateful for comments on the above suggestion from blog members.
To Sri Paritosh-January 28, 2010 1:19 AM
I endorse your view. However,if an employee who is opting pension now expects that his arrears of pension to be paid out of this 17.50 % earmarked for wage increase,he is absolutely wrong.
Similarly if an employee agrees to share this 17.50% earmarked for wage increase for payment of pension arrears, he is also wrong.Both can extend moral support to each other as this is a social security measure.Payment of pension should be from income generated out of corpus fund created,which goes on increasing year by year whereas wage increase is out of profit earned by banks.
Let us hope for the best.
Referring mml gupta 28, 2010 12:25 AM:
THANKS.
Sri Pradeep-January 28, 2010 7:52 PM
Demands of union for payment of pension from 01.04.2008 is justified and 100 % correct.The load factor arrived at by the common actuaries of IBA/UFBU itself was in respect of position as on 31.03.2008 for pension payment with effect from 01.04.2008. If pension can not be paid from 01.04.2008, then the burden has to be still less for Managements and also to each PF optee who is required to share 30 % of the load.
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